Self Arrows

[klr650Teach]

Good Morning Gang, I did a search for self arrows. Who'd a thot that on an archery forum the word arrow would come up so frequently

I just bought what appeared to be a very good condition large riser Bear Minuteman td 30# recurve bow off ebay. Where I live here in Mexico archery items are hard to find with nothing close by. Being retired now with nothing but time on my hands I figured I'll make a stab at building some of my kit such as the arrows. There is lots of bamboo here in my area and I've read lots and watched videos on making arrows from river cane but actual river cane as I understand only grows in the USA. But there is a fair amount of bamboo here that is fairly small. I've seen stands of it that reach 15-20 feet high and only 1 inch or so at the base. I'm hoping that if I can get to the young shoots when they reach 4-6 feet in height I may be able to make some arrow shafts from them but I have some questions.

What diameter shoots should I try to find in order to come up with a decent arrow shaft? How thick should the wall thickness be? If they are oversize can they be turned down to uniform size like through a wooden dowel maker?

Turkey feather alternatives; yeah I'm cheap lol is it only me or does a dollar seem awful expensive for a dead birds feather? Especially when you need 36 of them to do a dozen arrows! There are chickens around here and a fair number of what I think are turkey vultures. If I could find them could I use these? Or others?

I plan on making self nocks with wrapped shafts. For the tips there are items made under the brand name of TopHat. They offer an adapter that screws onto the end of the arrow that then accepts a standard 8x32 screw in field point or adapter. Not really a true self arrow but I don't have a clue how to flint knap nor am I needing hunting points of any kind for now. And I could easily unscrew one tip for another to up or down in tip weight for tuning the shafts. Anybody have any experience with these? Or suggestions as to what to use for tips?

How about tip weight? Or overall weight for the arrow for a 30# td recurve?

I've got the TBB's I,II and III and although cane shafts are covered there is really not a lot anywhere in dealing with the raw material.

I shot compounds for years. This trad thing is a whole new ballgame for me. tnx

[Pat B]

You don't want to use immature cane or shoot shafting. Use the upper end of mature canes. My cane arrows are about 3/8" on the point end and 5/16" at the nock end on my 30" arrows.

[klr650Teach]

Pat, what did you mean by "shoot shafting"? Were you referring to the mid shaft of the cane that is still fairly young? tnx

[klr650Teach]

How much larger in diameter should the fresh bamboo be cut to allow for shrinkage during curing times?

[KenH]

Shoot shafts would be made from newly growing shoots.  You want mature bamboo culms, not things that grew this year.  As Pat mentioned, you can use the tips of larger (1") culms.  They made need more straightening.

No you cannot "turn down" bamboo to a desired diameter -- you harvest what you need.  There is NO measureable shrinkage as it dries.  The diameter is what it is.  Leave the tough outer skin on.  You can sand down (a little) the nodes, but ideally you find a species of bamboo that has small nodes.

Self nocks are made with the shaft cut so that a node is about 3/4" from the butt end.

[Pat B]

Shoot shafting is like sourwood, hazel nut or red osier or other bush type dogwoods, ie. hardwood shoots. Hardwood shoots grow to their ultimate height the first year with leaves along the shoot. They loose their leaves the first winter and grow small branches at the leaf scar the second year. After that second growing season they are ready to cut for shafting.You can also use older shoots but usually they are too large and will need to be reduced.
 I carry a 3/8" open end wrench as a gauge for cutting cane and shoot shafting. After drying they are only slightly smaller diameter. Our native cane, river. switch and hill cane have a 3 year life cycle. The first year they grow to their ultimate height. Second year they mature, walls thicken, etc. After that 2nd growing season they are ready to harvest. The paper sheath at the nodes is deteriorated or gone all together after the second season. By the end of the 3rd growing season that cane will die. Once they loose their green color on the stump it's too late for safe arrows.

[klr650Teach]

Ok, now I understand what you meant. I was thinking "to shoot" not thinking "new shoot" lol. I went out and took a look around the neighborhood at what is available and found some (what I think) might be usable. The nodes seem to run about every 8 inches or so but the taper seems to drop off fairly quickly from 3/8 inch to less than 5/16 before I hit my needed length for my draw. I guess it's a case of of picking and choosing through many stalks to find the suitable ones for the application. The thicker end over my 29-30 inch needed shaft might end up being closer to 1/2 inch than 3/8 inch or smaller than 5/16 working the other direction. The wall thickness only appears to be about 1/16 inch thick in the internode area. Is that thick enough?

Would a couple months be sufficient drying time? Temps here average close to 80 degrees where I am.


Thanks for your comments gents, I'm learning a lot here.

[Pat B]

Yes, a couple of months should be plenty of drying time. You can place them in full sun also. This will help with the drying but also bleach out the green color to a straw color of cured cane.

[Pat B]

You may also have rose(wild or domestic) around or multi-shoot shrubs either in the wild or in landscapes you could use for arrows. I'm not familiar with Mexican plants but with a little looking around and experimentation you might be surprised what you have available locally for shafting, especially for the lighter weight bow.

[klr650Teach]

Thanks Pat, yes after looking at the length of bamboo I cut yesterday I'm wondering if the wall thickness will be strong enough.......maybe for a light bow. However after cutting it I saw what looked like a tree that had a coppicing effect from being cut and had lots of straight shoots that were of appropriate size so I cut half a dozen of them and wrapped them up with bungie cords to keep them tight and straight. I'll let them dry and see if they offer any promise.

What's the best route to go for feathers? ie, length and cut shape? As I think I'll be using screw in tips with an adapter for now I'm thinking I should go with a right hand wing feather?

[Pat B]

The feather wing doesn't make a difference unless you use left and right together. In Mexico you probably have more options for feathers. We are limited as to the feathers we use here in the US. Only game birds and exotics. If you are near the coast sea bird feathers are generally in great numbers along the beaches. Parrots are another option there as well.
 Did you cut second year growth shoots, with small branches and not just leaves? That will make a big difference as to the stability of the shafts. You can even cut shoots that are bigger diameter and reduce the diameter with a thumb plane or small hand plane or a draw plate, a plate of metal with holes drilled in it of graduated sizes.
 Another option is split out or sawn blanks from a board. Start with 1/2" to 3/8" square stock then remove the 4 corners with a plane then the 8 corners and sand smooth. Woods like maple, poplar, cedar(western red or eastern red), hickory and other straight grain wood.

[klr650Teach]

Yes I cut the branched section. Main stalks were 10-12 feet high and I got the section about 3 feet down from the top heading down another 3-4 feet where I cut it as it was getting too wide. I cut into the internode section so as to see the wall thickness. You be the judge.

[Pat B]

 Are you talking about the cane or coppiced shoots with the branching?
Are you sure that cane in the pic is mature? The wall does look thin. Are all you cut that same wall thickness? Once they are dry you can check the spine.
 Also, with cane shafts I don't worry about where the nodes are in relation to the self nock or point end. I try to place the nodes so the fletching doesn't go over a node if possible for a cleaner look. For self nocks I add a sinew wrap just below the nock and above the point...unless it is a commercial glue on point. Then the taper of the point socket holds the shaft together.
 I've also made good arrows from herbaceous shoots like horseweed , dog fennel and golden rod. Not as durable as cane or hardwood shoots but still makes a serviceable arrow.

[klr650Teach]

i think the difference you are seeing is the fact that this is not river cane. It's another type of bamboo. Mexico has hundreds of bamboo varieties.

[Pat B]

There are some clumping type bamboo(not runners) that make great arrows and are more suited for warmer climates. One I'm familiar with is Bambusa multiplex. The culms are 12' to 15' long and perfectly round with smaller nodes and 12"+ internodes, usually 2 nodes to an arrow. The culms have very little taper for the overall length with bases of 3/4" or less. They also make good "cane poles" for fishing. Probably make good split bamboo fly rods too.
 Another type of bamboo, Japanese arrow bamboo, grows to 6' or 7' and has large leaves for bamboo. It is a spreading(runner) type bamboo.
 Probably any bamboo will make good arrows is size appropriate.

[KenH]

The bamboo you're holding is 'way too young, probably this year's growth.  That's why the walls are thin.

[Roy from Pa]

Ian, check your PMs..