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Author Topic: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments  (Read 5910 times)

Online Terry Green

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2018, 07:58:20 PM »
We may be preaching to the choir but... the congregation is watching.    :campfire:
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Offline kenneth butler

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2018, 08:02:38 PM »
AMEN

Online Terry Green

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2018, 08:04:07 PM »
Drama?....since when has informing others against miss information become drama? Have we become so complacent that we just lay down to BS?????

Especially BS from people playing make believe???
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'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline Captain*Kirk

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2018, 09:21:05 PM »
Chad, maybe this person has the multitudes fooled into believing he is someone he is not, perhaps?
One of the negative sides to the internet is that people can claim to be whomever and whatever they want their resume to say...and without actually knowing this person, you have no way to prove or disprove that person's claims. If you DO know the person and have proof he or she is not who they claim to be, maybe you should blow the whistle on the other site?
On the other hand, some people need affirmation from others that they are important and/or great and will fill that need in any way possible; up to and including complete fabrication or hunting experience/prowess and lying through their teeth when called on it. Using your example, some people long for the respect a doctor might get even if they are a lousy doctor or not a doctor at all... :dunno:
Aim small,miss small

Offline kenneth butler

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2018, 10:05:29 PM »
I though the rest of the quote was printed and it was all resolved, my bad.>>>---> Ken

Bisch

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2018, 10:57:25 PM »
Chad, I agree with the fact that tuning is of utmost importance to any hunter to help make the most of any chance he gets at a critter.

Why people get on the internet and become someone who they are not is a question I can’t answer. I have PM’d several folks I know, telling them to take everything they read on a forum with a grain of salt after reading threads like you mentioned above.

Most any seasoned Trad shooter knows when he is getting buffaloed with disinformation. It the new guys that don’t have a clue yet that get led down wrong paths, and those are the guys who need good info the most!!!

Man, that guy really got under your skin, huh????

Bisch

Offline LBR

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2018, 12:23:14 AM »
Kenneth, it wasn't "resolved".  It's not just that one post, but countless ones over the years with the same theme.  Opinions based on imagination rather than experience, but given as if he is an expert on everything archery when the fact is he's done nothing of notice in the sport and often gives "advice" where he has zero experience.  When he gets called out, there's any number of groupies that flock to his defense...even here.  That's the reason for all the drama.


Kirk, for some reason this guy is protected.  No idea why.  I have tried calling him out, and when I did he'd dissapear and let his groupies take care of his dirty work.  They ignore the message and attack the messenger.  Boggles my mind.  Only thing I can come up with is that site isn't about promoting archery.  Tradgang is the ONLY site I've been to that doesn't protect him and his ilk.

Tony, I wish that were the case.  A thread I'd started was (mistakenly) deleted when a couple of people came running to his defense.  The ridiculous statements were ignored.  The focus was attacking me and questioning me, my honesty, and my integrety for listing a bunch of false and ridiculous statements.

Bisch, I agree 100% on the new guys.  That is why he got under my skin.  My wife and I have dedicated countless hours and a lot of money out of our own pocket volunteering for a school program that helps young archers get started.  I blame those who protect those people who act like they are some kind of expert but don't have a clue.  No idea why they do it.  They ignore the facts and attack the messenger.  It burns me to no end.  Like I said on the thread that got removed...people like this are a stain on the sport that I love.  A skid mark on the undergarments of archery.  The need to be bleached out.







Offline kenneth butler

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2018, 12:52:50 AM »
     Respectfully, I thought that is what I was doing, posting a correction. The quote was second hand, by admission,out of context, and incomplete. When the whole quote was put up it was resolved to me and others. Then it disappeared.
    LBR I know nothing of the other experiences and countless posts over the years,you speak of but that quote was in error and should have been resolved when the full quote was posted.
    I believe we all agree that tuning is of the utmost importance. See my thread.
   
    By the way you asked if I would come to your aid?  Certainly. If some one posted, what I knew to be false accusations about you, I would jump in to correct it. As I said I hope to always be as quick to defend as I am to criticize. Regards. >>>----> Ken

Online Roger Norris

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2018, 06:23:20 AM »
It has taken me years to figure it out, but a large majority of folks who are consistently spouting advice on the internet are spouting BS.

I actually think TradGang is one of the sites where it DOESN'T happen often. And my theory is that because we happen to meet each other face to face, there is less room for nonsense.

Try one of the tactical shooting or veteran sites. EVRYONE is a hardend combat vet, EVRYONE is a SEAL/Ranger/Sniper/SpaceShuttleDoorGunner :biglaugh:
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Offline LBR

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2018, 09:47:59 AM »
Kenneth, I did "admit" (sounds like I was trying to hide something before...I wasn't) it was second hand, since I don't go to the site where it was posted.

It wasn't resolved.  The full quote, in context, just revealed more false "information" spouted off as if he actually had experience and knew what he was talking about.

The thing about experience is it can change your opinions as it grows.  Experiences can vary a lot, and there's only one way to get it.

Pretending you have it when you don't is, to me at least, very telling.  It exposes a fake.  A phony.  A con.  A charlatan.  A wannabe who never had the talent or discipline or whatever to actually get out and do it, so they just pretend.

I'm no deer slayer.  I don't pretend to be.  I have spent many years hunting though, many of them with bow and arrow, in several different states and Canada, and I have killed game with traditional gear.  My actual experience tells me his pretend experience is wrong.

"Good enough" isn't good enough.  Sure, it will get you by sometimes.  Sure, there are some sloppy hunters.  Anyone that bothers to read forums can get any number of stories every hunting season. 

Listing a bunch of excuses as to why "most" hunters don't worry about perfect tune (that "empirical evidence" garbage) and just "grip it and rip it" was not only false, but an underhanded swipe at bow hunters. 

Speaking just for myself, I don't care for fakes.  I don't care for liars.  I don't care for people who take cheap shots at bow hunting.  I will correct and expose them if I have the opportunity. 

This isn't a case of different opinions.  Never has been.

Offline acedoc

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2018, 09:52:32 AM »
Life ain't fair, people pleasers will succeed more than upfront guys !
State your opinions and do what you feel is right. The rest is not worth getting riled up over. Keep the bp and cortisol down , easy to say ( I know).
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Offline LBR

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 10:49:06 AM »
Kenneth Butler, if you want to re-paste the entire comment again I'll be more than happy to specifically point out the fallacies. 

Either way you want to look at it, the guy is complete phony.

Online BAK

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 10:57:12 AM »
Those who can do, those who can't, teach.
"May your blood trails be short and your drags all down hill."

Offline kenneth butler

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 12:15:57 PM »
    I am sorry I wasn't the one who posted the entire quote. I know nothing of the years of internet B.S. you keep referring to. I only know of what was said right here on this site now.
    You seem to be the accuser and dong the name calling. Yet I have not seen one shred of evidence that every thing in the quote was false. I have been receiving messages and emails asking if it was this or that person. Not one had it right. That seems to mean you are messing with others reputations also. That certainly is not  good thing.
     Now I find out you are a sponsor. Guess I can't fight city hall. So who ever you are not even naming, is guilty until proven innocent. I am sorry I got involved. That is what I get for trying to correct an error.
    I hope you have a better day. >>>>-----> Ken

Offline LBR

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2018, 12:17:22 PM »
Thank you Ace and BAK!

Something else I'll say again...you don't see this kind of crap posted on Trad Gang.  Reckon why?  Ever wonder why this guy hasn't joined here to bestow his wisdom on even more of the archery world?

Because he wouldn't last 5 minutes!  A fake wannabe putting out crap "information" would be spotted and called out in no time flat here.  He wouldn't be PROTECTED, he would be E-JECTED!

I don't begrudge anyone their opinion, regardless if I agree with it or not.  There's a difference in giving an opinion and putting out baseless, false, fake "information" as if it's the gospel truth.

Offline LBR

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2018, 12:22:59 PM »
Again Kenneth, anything you have a question about just put it up.  I have nothing to hide.

Why you want to defend this idiocy is beyond me, but that's your business.

I never said that "everything" in the quote was false.  That's a false accusation.  Thanks.

How am I messing with the reputations of others?  Another false accusation.

So you think that, as a sponsor, I'm getting special treatment?  Lol...I've had lots of posts pulled before.  Other sponsors have as well.

So here you are again, attacking the messenger, doing that very thing you accuse me of. 

Does it matter WHO pretends to have experience but has absolutely none?  Does it matter WHO is telling the lies and half-truths?  Will it make the "information" better or worse depending on who said it?

Like I said...if you have a question or want to confront me personally, my e-mail is [email protected].

Online Terry Green

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2018, 01:03:37 PM »
Mr Butler...don't go dragging 'city hall' into this.  I've pulled many a sponsors posts not just Chads....Barry Wensel, Ron LaClair, Ray Hammond, Doug Campbell, Bob Morrison, Rob DiStefano just to name a few, and even my OWN.  Maybe you don't know because you don't know.  Tradgang is pre instagram, facebook, and youtube.  Chad has been about the block more than once, knows the fuller brush(yes, I've been around long enough to know what that means).  And, not sure how he's messing with the reputations of others.  Who's he named?  I posted some stuff too about fake news posting, yet no one is emailing me about that.

I think some are getting too riled up....the typed word sucks,....zero inflection.  The most hatted thing by me about message boards.  ....and I'm working on a way around this.

C'mon guys, we should be looking out for others.  Life is short, no sense in just letting dissinfo to run rampant so new comers will suffer, we should be guarding them against disaster in the making.  Least that's the way I see it.....I wouldn't let a kid cook with fire by telling him to stand in it.

Ease up guys, there's wisdom in this thread.... :campfire:
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"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Online Terry Green

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2018, 01:43:47 PM »
Oh, and I would like to add....

I have turned Sponsors away because they didn't meet the criteria for TradGang and/or they were claiming to to want to pay me big bucks if they would let them 'control' the site with domination advertising.

I have also banned Sponsors and gave them their money back because they didn't want to follow the rules.

I have flat turned money away because of preceding reputations.

So please, don't go down the road of 'the tail wagging the dog'.  That aint happening here.  However, we will protect the Sponsors against aggression in a heartbeat.  Neither is the case here.

We have to have Sponsors to help finance the site no doubt, but they don't anymore run it than we run their business.  We are here to help each other.

Like I said, some haven't been here long enough to know our history, they just 'assume' way too much.

Just wanted to make that clear..... :campfire:
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'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline LBR

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2018, 01:54:18 PM »
Thank you Terry.  I'm trying not to take anything personal, but it's not easy...especially when my honesty and integrity is called into question over confronting easily disprovable claims...but the one who made the claims has his words taken at face value?  Because he claimed "empirical evidence"?   :dunno:

I haven't posted about it before, because I don't like talking about screwing up...but I have one EXPERIENCE while ACTUALLY HUNTING that is contrary to just about every claim made in that post.  I'm going off memory (of the post), so forgive me if I missed something.

Last season I wanted to kill a deer with primitive gear...at least with a primitive bow and arrow.  I have a 54@30 hickory selfbow I made at the TN Classic several years ago.  I actually competed in, and won, the "Selfbow Challenge" with it.  Later on I took it to Mr. Eric Krewson's and we further refined it.  It's a shooter.

I'm no flint knapper, but I know a few.  One of the better ones is James Parker.  Survival expert, bowyer, primitive bow hunter...he's got skills.  We did some trading, and for my end of the bargain I got a dozen Tonkin cane arrows with flint heads.

I took this dozen arrows (the shafts had been spined and sorted before being made into arrows) and I shot them...and shot them...and shot them.  I have a dense foam target that wouldn't dull the (very sharp) stone points, and would show impact.  I chose three arrows from the dozen, for (perfect) flight and sharpness.  I was getting a good 7" of penetration into the dense foam.  Should blow through a whitetail like a paper sack.

After several days of ACTUAL HUNTING, the PERFECT opportunity presented itself.  A great big old doe was diving nearly to her eyeballs in pine straw (evidently something grows under the straw and the deer love it).  I watched and waited.  She was maybe 8 yds, perfectly broadside, head down behind a tree, totally relaxed (or as relaxed as a MS whitetail ever gets).  She had no clue I was in the world.

One thing I love about self bows...a mouse fart seems loud compared to mine.  I had chartreuse marribou feather "tracers" glued to the back of my arrow so I could see it in flight.  Looked like a tennis ball.  Shot was absolutely perfect.  She didn't even flinch until the arrow struck.

I'm thinking "dead deer".  Long story short, after getting a buddy and looking...and looking...and looking...finally found my arrow.  Blood showed just under 2" penetration.  Best we could figure the head hit perfectly horizontal between two ribs and the ribs gave just enough to kill penetration.  Deer got sore ribs out of the deal.

Now, to get to the point. 

I didn't go with "good enough". 

I put a lot of time and work into getting everything right.  I didn't have on heavy clothes (early bow season in MS...if I remember correctly I was wearing shorts).  I wasn't in an odd position.  I didn't rush the shot (had plenty of time).  I'd practiced the shot (seated) over and over and over.  I wasn't "cold" (I shot before I went to the blind and wasn't there very long, and it wasn't even cool weather).  I sure didn't "grip it and rip it".

Absolutely none of that so-called "empiricle evidence" applied to me or my situation.  Even though I went way above and beyond "good enough", it wasn't good enough.

THAT is the difference in actual experience vs. phony imagination and pretending.  That is why that "good enough is good enough" and all the excuses to try and justify it is some of the worst "advice" I've ever seen.  That is why I strongly suggest you take the "advice" given by someone who has ZERO experience with a grain of salt.

Offline Captain*Kirk

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Re: Hunting Advice: Questions and Comments
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2018, 02:07:50 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, Terry. Wrong is wrong, no matter who posts it.
Since I obviously don't frequent the site you are mentioning, Chad, I have no idea of who this person is...or perhaps I do but don't realize it...it makes it hard for me to verify what you are are saying, but i do understand your frustration in 'experts' teaching false information (doctrine, if you will) to new hunters and archers. It's easy to take the word of someone who speaks with authority as gospel when you are young or a newbie to a sport; make that lifestyle such as trad archery...because one of the many facets of trad hunting is the unwritten code of ethics that goes along with that lifestyle. And if you can't transfer that code along with the passion and love for hunting and trad archery, you have created a very dangerous situation that can spread like a disease within the trad community, as it's done in other facets of hunting. And enough non/anti hunters already have a negative prejudice toward trad hunting as 'cruel, ineffective and inhumane' already without creating a new generation of Rambo-oriented neanderthals that will bend or break the rules (as well as the code of ethics) any way they see fit, to get their jollies and a freezer full of meat.
Anyway, thanks for bringing this to the forefront, Chad. It's a critical issue in a very crucial time, as trad hunting (at least in my neck of the woods) is skating on very thin ice right now.
Aim small,miss small

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