Losing Bowhunting

[MO Bow]

I think we tend to over-romanticize the good ole days.  Most people have always used the best equipment available to them which they could afford to purchase.  The old timers did not use much of the stuff we use today because it was not available, not because they thought it unethical or that it gave them too much of an advantage.  Each of us needs to decide how much challenge we want for ourselves and select our equipment/accessories accordingly.

Truth.

I haven't posted in ages, but I want to chime in on this one.

Also, back in the "good ol' days" there was no internet/facespace/tradgang powwow and not nearly as many hunting shows...so, your sample size back in the day was extremely limited compared to what it is today.  The powwow was most likely limited to just folks you knew personally...friends/coworkers/etc.  Typically, one's hunting buddies share the same values (at least in hunting) or you probably wouldn't hunt or associate with them. 

Technology has certainly changed and has made hunting much more accessible.  This is crucial to understand because not everyone that hunts today grew up hunting and may not fully understand or share the core values of conservation and what folks generally think "hunting is all about."  I believe a vast majority of us hunters out there "get it," and those are the ones who bear the responsibility of passing along the values that will keep out sport and tradition alive for generations. 

I don't have nearly as much time or experience as a lot of folks on this page, but I grew up hunting, enjoying the outdoors, scouting, fishing, hiking, camping, etc.  I have three little boys that I can't wait to teach everything I know.  One is just old enough to start getting into shooting.  He's 6 and he has his own St. Joe's River bow that he calls River Laser, and he also just started Cub Scouts.  Teaching one of my boys will hopefully replace me...anything more than that will spread our values even further. 

You can't be afraid of the younger generation out there...they might not always know how to approach the gentleman sitting at the diner drinking coffee.  Millenials love information...even if it's not through Instagram.  You'll be surprised.

One last thought on technology in the hunting world.  If there were no advances in technology as it pertains to hunting, there wouldn't be nearly as many hunters nor would there be corporations with money to keep the sport alive.  It all comes down to constituents and $$$.  Be glad it's there, but also pass along our traditions and values.  It's all required if we want to keep our sport alive in this rapidly changing world.

I think that's enough nonsense from me for a while.

Take it easy.

[23feetupandhappy]

Well done and well spoken Bowguy.

I see bowhunting (including traditional bowhunting) as inevitably affected and changed by the same forces which change almost everything in our lives. There's no sense in me listing everything I can think of, but it's enough to know just about EVERY thing we do today is done far differently than it was 50 years ago. Our society has become one of generally doing things faster, easier, with less calories, with more brain cells...and along the way using most any advantage we can glean. Just take any basic endeavor and compare today versus 1970. Nothing we do is immune from progress...whether we agree and like that progress or not.

In many respects traditional bowhunting flies in the face of the modern hunting mentality. But even we...as an overall subset of bowhunters...are slowly embracing the changes which make what we do a little easier. We tend to shoot weapons somewhat consistent with the past, but then we climb into tig-welded aluminum stands, or maybe we screw carefully machined broadheads into carbon shafts. We share hunting info and techniques instantly across the internet, whereas most of it was learned via hard effort and mistakes in the past. Though we love wood and graceful arcs, how many of us carry a gps or smartphone and use it while afield? Game cameras anyone?

My simple contention is we are traditional bowhunters (by claim) but we don't live on a proverbial island away from the tide of progress and development. We've embraced some of it, while rejecting parts of it. I think if we took a sampling of 500 traditional bowhunters we'd see plenty of evidence they avail themselves of gear and techniques which aren't consistent with how things were done 50 years ago. The accepted definition of 'traditional' is always a moving target, and one that I've yet to see universally accepted.

Hunt honorably and hunt hard. Beyond that, hunt to please yourself....and nobody else.

Well Said

[McDave]

The point is raised that if hunters 50 years ago had the modern technology we have now they would have used it then.  Of course they would have!  Animals, which include humans, don’t evolve very much in 50 years.  People have always been motivated to do the minimum amount of work necessary to get something, and for the most part, that has worked out well for us as a species.  So well, in fact, that we now run the real risk of killing ourselves through the side effects of over-population.  So we now have to ask ourselves a question which would have been unthinkable 50 or 100 or 1,000 years ago: have we become victims of our own success?  Would it be better to work a little harder for things, have more personal interaction with our fellow human beings, rely less on technology and more on our own resources?  Peoples’ answers may differ, but they are questions worth asking.

[Roger Norris]

A few  things are at play here...the instant gratification of the 20 to 40 year old crowd is one. Working to learn a traditional bow, passing up a buck out of range (but an easy shot for a crossbow), these things require time and self sacrifice that this group is not interested in. Certainly there are a few exceptions, but in general, why would someone with the ultimate smart phone controlling their life not gravitate towards the highest level technology in other parts of their life?

Second, archery history. Like Jon Stewart, I was born into this. Instead of Cowboys and Indians, I grabbed my York green glass bow and played Fred Bear. Michigan's rich bowhunting history was driven into me at a young age. I cannot estimate the amount of hours I spent sitting in the dark mini-theater at "Bear Mountain" in Grayling, watching Mr Bear stalk the world. To the millenials today, Fred Bear is someone Ted Nugent sang about. Glenn St Charles? Never heard of him. I was in camp one night with Tom Jenkins, who I consider one of the great bowhunting historians. He was talking about different people in bowhunting, recounting their exploits in the early years. Suddenly he just shut up and went to bed. I talked to him the next morning over coffee..."Too much eye rolling in that room, those youngsters don't care about our history"......what a shame.

Finally...with technology like the internet and especially podcasts (I'm beginning to dislike podcasts) EVERYONE WANTS TO BE FAMOUS. I am sick of listening to some guy explain "how it should be done", and then learning they have been hunting with traditional gear for 8-10 years....maybe.

I suppose as long as one of us sits a stand with longbow in hand, it will never die. But it's changing. And not for the better.

[monterey]

I think that's enough nonsense from me for a while.

Not nonsense at all!

I think a lot of this just comes down to human nature.  It has been a long time evolving and has been largely driven by intense curiosity and applied intelligence.  It happened over thousands of years but today it happens at an ever accelerating pace just due to technology.  Technology driven by the same forces that got us here.  It sorta drives itself.

So bow hunting that is so important to us is just a small slice of the culture around us and the things that drive it.  We aren't the only ones to sing this song of lament.  It can be found everywhere in today's world.

We can't predict where all of society is going but we can direct our own lives and the lives our children and grandchildren on a daily basis.  If they are listening to you, you are doing about all you can and doing it right to boot.

[Macatawa]

lotsa good thoughts here to ponder...
 

[Ron LaClair]

Jon, I was sorry to hear about Aaron. I first met him years ago when we got the MLA going, he was a good guy....an "old timer" that will be missed

[Pointer]

Give me a medium-sized doe every time...no kidding. We all hunt for our own reasons. I love my time afield in the autumn woods...to me that time is a gift from the Almighty.  I want the challenge of using a simple stick and string. I enjoy eating venison... antlers are great but don't count for much with me.

Everyone has their reasons and I truly believe we would all do the sport a favor if we didn't bother about anyone else'.

We are a diverse group from all over the country and traditional likely means different things to each of us. And why shouldn't it?...that's a good thing I think. If we all keep bowhunting in our own way then what's to lose?

Hunt hard and safe, hunt ethically, enjoy God's gift of the autumn woods and don't worry so much about how others define traditional bowhunting.

[Roy from Pa]

 

[Pfranchise]

Well said Bowguy.

[GCook]

I don't think it's realistic to expect it not to change.
Most of us it takes a lot of time to get and stay good enough to ethically hunt. 
When I was younger I spent too much time working and building a retirement to shoot enough to be good with "traditional" equipment.  I could squeeze in a couple evenings with a sighted modern bow and maintain my consistency to hunt but knew I would get back to trad when life slowed down. 
That said most younger people's lives are saturated with too many things to do.  I see it with my scout parents who have 2 and 4 kids at different activities and running themselves ragged to keep up.  The percentage of young shooters to older shooters is small at the shoots I've been to.  Just the opposite of modern bow matches. 
If young people get involved and do it a little differently then somehow we should be able to look past the differences and help them fit in and grow into the sport. 
Yes the push for bigger antlers and quicker success can be challenging but face it, we compete in everything in life. 
I can only hope I make a good clean shot on a good doe or two this season.  But if a wallhanger buck walks by I won't be ashamed to try to put a good arrow in him. 
The world is changing and none of us can stop or even slow it down.  Our job is just to keep doing the right things and pass our knowledge and wisdom down to the following generations.  How they absorb it, what they do with it, is beyond our control.
To the OP, congratulations on a good deer.  Enjoy it and the time you have in the woods.  Don't let what you can't control ruin these times.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[hunting badger]

I had an experience that changed me forever. Years ago I drew a much convened Montana Moose permit after 18 years of putting in for it. I was committed to hunting with a bow, I was shooting a 70# Dale Dye recurve at the time. I had seen several big bulls but could not seal the deal , as they say. One time I took my 10 year old son with me and we were hunting a old clearcut that had grown up and was full of saplings, We got with 15 yards of a approximately 36" bull, I had a perfect shot but because I wanted a bigger one, I passed the shot. A decision I regret to this day!! I could have shot a nice bull with traditional equipment with my 10 year old son at my side and I passed because of ego and concern about what other people think!! I will NEVER  make that mistake again!!!! I did shoot a bigger bull with a rifle but it never meant anything to me!  So the moral is hunt for your self, enjoy yourself and never define your hunting experience by what other people think!!

[Terry Green]

Great post..great stories... thanks.

And congrats also

[mgf]

Shouldn't we mention some of the other changes that have an effect?

For example, I used to have good places to hunt and I used to see a lot of deer. That's all changed.  Now I mostly hunt for a place to hunt and haven't even drawn my bow in the presence of a deer in a couple of years.

I hunt with a bow because that's what I like to shoot and carry. I'm not trying to make things harder on myself.  I sure wouldn't blame somebody in my position who chose to use equipment that increased the chances of putting some meat in the freezer.

 

 

[Bowguy67]

Guys I think part of this is focus. That’s why I mentioned the word lifestyle. Let’s say a guy involved himself fully and had a blown shoulder, chose to use a wheel bow to still hunt. He’d still be a bowhunter.
I’m not referring to a man’s choice in gear, it’s about really being a hunter. I know things change but there’s a dif in deer shooting and deer hunting. The fellows that use every bit of technology to guarantee or as close to guarantee a shot today imo aren’t really living the lifestyle. They show up shoot a deer, take a pic to show off on a job site, that’s it. I don’t wish to get into any debates but if someone dropped bait say anywhere, put a stand on it, his camera telling him when to show up, he shoots a deer on it, that’s be legally hunting in some places but it’s not the same imo. I don’t get why these techniques are so accepted w deer and so shunned w turkey, waterfowl. Isn’t an animal an animal?
Let me ask another question and nothing here is absolute but guess where you think the odds favor? If they somehow outlawed the bait and camera use how many that know only that would convert? How many in a couple years would be “too busy” to hunt.
Nothing here is saying the people are second class citizens, they aren’t. Are they fully vested though?? Idk.
If someone really learns the ways of the bow, takes time to learn shooting, learns their herd, learns the land, learns patterns, food sources and which are preferred in what order. Keeps a tab on rutting areas, escape areas, uses and understands good entry and exit strategy, is he more likely to stay w it and pass his knowledge down? I’d say so.
I’m gonna say something I found incredulous. Last week I hunted a N.Y. farm. These locals to me seem wherever they hunt to blow up. The deer disappear, they get spooky, they change patterns.
So when I hunted I was slightly annoyed they again were hunting a same farm. These are nice guys mind you. I was cordial and mentioned the wind. The fellow said that’s one thing they don’t worry about or understand, hunting the wind. (Bowhunting 101)
He was proud they learned cameras and bait and told me so. I felt I had misread the guys. Explained to him wind use and how even baiting back home this would have to be considered. He told me I better tell his brother as well cause he doesn’t know either.
I showed him easily nowadays w scoutlook how to check the wind and scroll it fwd to see how it’ll unfold during a sit. I mentioned if it went off I’d personally leave instead of blowing a spot.
Old school we used topo maps, the weather forecast and a compass to check while still home. Today it’s easy and he’s maybe using a gadget but it’s giving the same results.
If a fellow used some technology but still lived the lifestyle I don’t think anyone would question them. Guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder and those who don’t understand what I’m getting at perhaps never will.
Be a mentor and pass it down so it’s not lost

[smag]

Good story, lovely picture of a fall hunt gone well.

HH~

[Ron LaClair]

"The only thing constant is change"

Bowhunting has been changing ever since I started hunting deer with a bow in 1955. It has evolved from it's simple beginnings to a point of developing away from customs and "old" beliefs.

The majority of the "flock" have followed blindly down the "path of least resistance".  It's human nature to take the "easy" way, people have a tendency to be lazy want to accomplish their goal quickly and easily.

Then there are those like the people on this forum that want to challenge themselves and do things "the hard way". They have a respect for the history of bowhunting and have been inspired by men like Pope and Young, Fred Bear and Howard Hill.


The crossbow is the latest threat to bowhunting. It's addition to the bow season was brought about by greed for the almighty dollar by manufactures and retailers. It appeals to the aforementioned human nature to take the easy path. Even so I believe there will always be people like us who believe in the history and tradition of bowhunting and will keep that spirit alive. We/you have a choice to choose the path that you will follow. No matter how the archery world changes in the future, as long as there are people like us who refuse to let the old ways die, we can inspire others to realize the joy of a simple stick and string   

[Sam McMichael]

I don't think we are losing hunting... yet. Overall, fewer people are hunting, and more and more people condemn  it as cruel and inhumane. It has been this way for some decades. Plus, changes in technology, land usage, and "hunters" looking for an easier path to bragging rights are disheartening. HOWEVER, there is still a hardcore cadre of sportsmen (both archers and riflemen) who do respect the game, the land, and have a sense of fairness, placing the challenge and sense of fair play ahead of the need to simply collect a trophy. As long as we hold to these values and pass them along to our young ones, we can save the essence of ethical hunting. True, we are a small niche in the overall scheme of things, but as traditional bowhunters, we are used to being the minority. Let us hold fast to our beliefs and share them with all who will listen.

[bigbadjon]

I feel a little differently on a things. First I don't believe that lots of people are opposed to hunting, I just think more people are demanding greater respect to the animal and antis just have big audiences and loud voices due to social media. Next while I do agree we are looking for faster and more convenient methods, for a variety of reasons, I believe we have more accurate archers with trad or modern bows as ever before. I attribute that to the easy access we have to training materials via the web. If we can keep involvement high I actually feel like we are in good standing.

[Bowguy67]

I feel a little differently on a things. First I don't believe that lots of people are opposed to hunting, I just think more people are demanding greater respect to the animal and antis just have big audiences and loud voices due to social media. Next while I do agree we are looking for faster and more convenient methods, for a variety of reasons, I believe we have more accurate archers with trad or modern bows as ever before. I attribute that to the easy access we have to training materials via the web. If we can keep involvement high I actually feel like we are in good standing.

Idk bout this. Hope you don’t mind if I qualify what I’m thinking. I get your point but it’s a double edged sword of sorts.
Years ago I remember Curtis Sliwa did an interview on the radio. Curtis was the guardian angel founder. He knows nothing about hunting but he vocalized a common perception back than. He said he wasn’t fond of hunting, except the Bowhunters, at least they gave the animal a chance.
The point I say is a double edged sword is keeping involvement high. Yea we need numbers but are some helping or hurting us in the public eye?
If you mentioned bowhunting who would visualize a stick, string and wooden arrow?
Many think sport hunting means for sport and that all we want is the head. This isn’t true. When I explain sport hunting ,at least to me, means keeping things sporting. Making things harder than it needs to be as well as explaining the predator/prey relationship and for the good, a small percentage need to be harvested.  The health of them all means some must go, it’s the way they reproduce,  well you can see gears in their brain turn as they understand. If you talk about the work involved, the waiting, etc to a kids first harvest and that some are being taken either way by us or a slaughter team, they change their tune. What is the difference between  a deer shooter and a slaughter team?? Really nothing, they employ similar techniques often,  save a cast net and pin gun.
I do get what you’re saying we do need numbers but I say the right numbers. That’s why mentoring is so important. Also not saying I’m the only one right. Just more to think about