Losing Bowhunting

[YosemiteSam]

Good thoughts posted here.  I won't pretend to know anything about the future or the sport as a whole.  But I'll offer my experience for what it's worth.

Our rifle seasons here are set to end right as the rut kicks in and for most places, it's buck only.  So we have to find bucks in the daylight when they're mostly nocturnal.  That's not to say that it can't be done.  But it's not easy.  Success rates are less than 10%.  I've heard that bowhunter success is somewhere around 2% (compound included).

So although I'd prefer to go exclusively with a traditional bow, the odds are so slim that I've felt no problem hunting with a rifle this year.  As luck would have it, I filled my tag with a nice forkie.  I've had so many shot opportunities at does and spikes these last few years that I can't even begin to count them.  I'd love to take a doe.  But it's just not legal here.  That forkie, while nothing to brag about, is a trophy out here -- even with a rifle.  Most hunters I know will shoot the first legal buck they find and will feel extremely lucky to have found one at all.

My biggest fear for the future of hunting in my family is that successes get to be too few and far between to hold the interest of younger hunters.  Although I understand why our game laws are the way that they are, I also feel that traditional archers should have greater leeway in what they take.  If it were up to me, does would be legal deer for traditional bowhunters while compound hunters and rifle hunters should be more restricted.  But it isn't up to me.  As it is, with a legal buck being something most hunters only see once every few years (let alone get a shot opportunity on), I feel no shame in picking up a rifle every so often.

In some ways, it's a similar trend with the copper ammo rules we have.  I used to hunt with a 30-30.  But when the lead ban hit, which was really meant to solve problems related to high-velocity cartridges that fragment, my 30-30 became obsolete.  Yes, there is copper ammo for the 30-30 but the copper needs more speed than a 30-30 generates with accurate loads.  So I was "forced" to buy a .308 to have an accurate rifle for deer hunting.  I feel that it's a similar legislative change that "forces" hunters out here to use rifles over traditional gear.  If I could take does, I'd be done hunting before labor day.  But the laws are what they are.  And if I want to have any success at all, I have to make some peace with the idea of rifle hunting every so often.  I still plan to hunt the archery season with traditional gear.  But I certainly don't hold it against anybody out here who wants to be able to put the odds a little more in their favor.  Unless the regs change (unlikely) taking a compound for a 30-40 yard shot or a rifle for up to 200 yards is still within the bounds of ethics and fair chase as far as I'm concerned.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Congrats to the OP on a great deer.  I could type out a long response but Ron L. said it the way I was thinking.

[BowHunterGA]

Finally...with technology like the internet and especially podcasts (I'm beginning to dislike podcasts) EVERYONE WANTS TO BE FAMOUS. I am sick of listening to some guy explain "how it should be done", and then learning they have been hunting with traditional gear for 8-10 years....maybe.

I get your point here Roger but a little something for you (and others) to consider. There are some of us doing podcasts not to become famous but in an effort to try and preserve some of our outdoor traditions, woodsmanship skills, and the mindset of a hunter/conservationist. Embracing technologies, like podcasts, are the best way to try to reach a younger generation and hopefully pass along some of the qualities in hunters that many of us hold very dear. Yes, we do want to entertain and engage with those of us that are already of the same mindset, attitude and opinion but hopefully we might also entice someone away from the "Smoked HIM!" mindset that Outdoor's Television has created. Not to mention that the podcast platform is a good platform to deliver a message without the negativity that we ourselves sometimes can't stop ourselves from engaging in on the tennis match that most social media conversations end up being.

I guess I am just saying keep in mind that there are some of us doing this for the right reasons. We spend our time preparing content, contacting guests, scheduling interviews, paying for hardware and software and more, all to create a product that anyone can access and consume for free. Then we put ourselves out there publicly for anyone to come along and provide negative, and public feedback if they don't care for a guest, topic or a point being made.


Just a little food for thought. Not trying to generate an argument or anything........like I said, I can understand why you might feel the way you do......just trying to offer some input from the other side.

[Roger Norris]

Finally...with technology like the internet and especially podcasts (I'm beginning to dislike podcasts) EVERYONE WANTS TO BE FAMOUS. I am sick of listening to some guy explain "how it should be done", and then learning they have been hunting with traditional gear for 8-10 years....maybe.

I get your point here Roger but a little something for you (and others) to consider. There are some of us doing podcasts not to become famous but in an effort to try and preserve some of our outdoor traditions, woodsmanship skills, and the mindset of a hunter/conservationist. Embracing technology, like podcasts, are the best way to try to reach a younger generation and hopefully pass along some of the qualities in hunters that many of us hold very dear. Yes, we do want to entertain and engage with those of us that are already of the same mindset, attitude and opinion but hopefully we might also entice someone away from the "Smoked HIM!" mindset that Outdoor's Television has created. Not to mention that the podcast platform is a good platform to deliver a message without the negativity that we ourselves sometimes can't stop ourselves from engaging in on the tennis match that most social media conversations end up being.

I guess I am just saying keep in mind that there are some of us doing this for the right reasons. We spend our time preparing content, contacting guests, scheduling interviews, paying for hardware and software and more, all to create a product that anyone can access and consume for free. Then we put ourselves out there publicly for anyone to come along and provide negative, and public feedback if they don't care for a guest, topic or a point being made.


Just a little food for thought. Not trying to generate an argument or anything........like I said, I can understand why you might feel the way you do......just trying to offer some input from the other side.

Good morning Steve. I think you are reacting to this part of my post:

Finally...with technology like the internet and especially podcasts (I'm beginning to dislike podcasts) EVERYONE WANTS TO BE FAMOUS. I am sick of listening to some guy explain "how it should be done", and then learning they have been hunting with traditional gear for 8-10 years....maybe.


Fair enough. I apologize that I have not listened to your podcast, so know that I can't possibly be talking about you. And really, I picked on "podcasts" a little unfairly. I'm also considering the youtube videos, etc.

I won't say exactly what set me off,because the folks involved probably have their hearts in the right place, and they certainly have time invested in what they are doing.

But whether it is a written article, self published video, podcast, whatever...I am always a little puzzled by folks who have done something for a relatively short time who self proclaim to be "experts".

[BowHunterGA]

Good morning Roger, honestly I did not think you were talking about my podcast. In fact there are several I could name that I think your post could have been directed at and I do get it. Hey I understand basic marketing and if you want people to "buy in" to your product one way is to sound like you know what you are talking about. That is not what I started mine for and though I may give my opinion or discuss what has worked for me, the LAST thing I want people to consider me is an expert on anything. LOL

Still, I do think all of these platforms are a way to reach a new, younger audience so from the perspective of preserving traditional archery and bowhunting I support all of them but just know that there are a few out there that even I choose not to listen to for the same reasons that you mention. Thank you for the reply.

[Roy from Pa]

And what the heck are arrow canoes?

 

[Bowguy67]

Finally...with technology like the internet and especially podcasts (I'm beginning to dislike podcasts) EVERYONE WANTS TO BE FAMOUS. I am sick of listening to some guy explain "how it should be done", and then learning they have been hunting with traditional gear for 8-10 years....maybe.

I get your point here Roger but a little something for you (and others) to consider. There are some of us doing podcasts not to become famous but in an effort to try and preserve some of our outdoor traditions, woodsmanship skills, and the mindset of a hunter/conservationist. Embracing technology, like podcasts, are the best way to try to reach a younger generation and hopefully pass along some of the qualities in hunters that many of us hold very dear. Yes, we do want to entertain and engage with those of us that are already of the same mindset, attitude and opinion but hopefully we might also entice someone away from the "Smoked HIM!" mindset that Outdoor's Television has created. Not to mention that the podcast platform is a good platform to deliver a message without the negativity that we ourselves sometimes can't stop ourselves from engaging in on the tennis match that most social media conversations end up being.

I guess I am just saying keep in mind that there are some of us doing this for the right reasons. We spend our time preparing content, contacting guests, scheduling interviews, paying for hardware and software and more, all to create a product that anyone can access and consume for free. Then we put ourselves out there publicly for anyone to come along and provide negative, and public feedback if they don't care for a guest, topic or a point being made.


Just a little food for thought. Not trying to generate an argument or anything........like I said, I can understand why you might feel the way you do......just trying to offer some input from the other side.

Good morning Steve. I think you are reacting to this part of my post:

Finally...with technology like the internet and especially podcasts (I'm beginning to dislike podcasts) EVERYONE WANTS TO BE FAMOUS. I am sick of listening to some guy explain "how it should be done", and then learning they have been hunting with traditional gear for 8-10 years....maybe.


Fair enough. I apologize that I have not listened to your podcast, so know that I can't possibly be talking about you. And really, I picked on "podcasts" a little unfairly. I'm also considering the youtube videos, etc.

I won't say exactly what set me off,because the folks involved probably have their hearts in the right place, and they certainly have time invested in what they are doing.

But whether it is a written article, self published video, podcast, whatever...I am always a little puzzled by folks who have done something for a relatively short time who self proclaim to be "experts".

Roger if I may, the reason people think they’re experts is cause they don’t know what they don’t know. Think about that, makes perfect sense

[Roger Norris]

And what the heck are arrow canoes?

 

 

[Roy from Pa]

 

Ya have a picture of the other side, Roger?

[Roger Norris]

Ya have a picture of the other side, Roger?

[Roy from Pa]

 

Nice..

[LUNGBUSTER]

Well I’ve been at this red thing a while now. I started with a compound. And I never did give it up. It was my first passion. And it was a sure thing to put meat in the freezer. Honestly when I started with recurves and longbows it made me excited again. Like the early days. But when I would blow a shot I’d be so mad at myself. The kill was my sole focus. And I could never fully commit to the stickbow because of it. Well a few deerless years with every weapon from stickbow to crossbows, and even fun misses did a thing to me. It made me realize I’ll live if I don’t get a deer. And that just seeing them is a thrill. So this year for literally the first time ever I’ve committed fully to the longbow. And I’ve let a few deer that I’d have iced with my compound walk, because the shot didn’t feel right. And the crazy part is it didn’t bother me in the least. And for the first time ever I didn’t feel handicapped by my bow choice. I’m having more fun than I have in years. And I could care less if I kill one. But I’m also pretty confident if something gives me the shot I’m after I’ll do my part.
But I must say I don’t think it’s all lost. I’ve gotten many people including all four of my kids into trad. Not by trying to convert them. But because they see how much fun I’m having and want in. Stickbow are just a blast. And I think more folks are gonna catch on.

[LUNGBUSTER]

Got auto corrected lol. Trad thing. Not red lol

[LUNGBUSTER]

And gun misses. Not fun. Lord help me I gotta go to bed. Night all lol.

[Bowwild]

I've read every post on this thread. Lots of deep thinking here...you can tell we spend a lot of time between sightings, simply contemplating. I'm also sure many of us smile upwards and thank Him for the opportunity to enjoy His wonderful creation.

I've only been at this for 49 years. Started with curves in the 60's, went to compounds in 1975, and back (partially) to curves in 2010.  I've also observed the sport and sportsmen and women from the wildlife manager/regulator's seat for about 3 of those decades.

I am extremely optimistic about the future of bowhunters and bowhunting.  I've always been this way, but even more these days as the "zanies" have poisoned their own well with the general public, with their antics and ridiculous hunter hater positions.

I now this topic is mostly about the bowhunter's frame of mind and choices. A lot of focus here on equipment modifications and participants. 

I do remember the time, about 30 years ago, when the bowhunter was seen by other hunters, the public, and wildlife management agencies as more avid, knowledgeable, and maybe more thoughtful hunters than most. Some complete stranger, non-hunters were actually "impressed" with bowhunters (obviously they didn't know ALL of us). That may or not have been a fair or accurate portrayal of us.  There are certainly folks in the firearms crowd that are as much or more of all these things than the best among us.

I used to think that more hunters should make the kinds of equipment and technique choices as I made, in order to elevate their game, have more fun, and be as respectful of hunting and the hunted. I even saw a lot of that "hunt like me" in archery hunting regulations (draw weights, point weights, point widths, arrow cast, accessories, ...on and on.  These were complicated regulations and in many cases, for most officers, very difficult to enforce.

However, for most of my career, at least, I was of a less is more mindset, especially regarding regulations.  I put my fingerprints on many of those simplifications, at least here in Kentucky. I'm not even anti-crossbow any longer. I don't prefer to hunt with them, for now as long as my body holds out. But I don't mind those who do. I have no fear, here in the east, about game populations or seasons being impacted by crossbow take.

I love our (bowhunters') long seasons with time to wait for the weather, temperature, and winds we prefer. I love that the field isn't as crowded as in other seasons. I also like being able to disappear in the woods, even from my own reflections instead of glowing orange.

Bowhunter numbers are up nationwide, and not all the increase is by folks with crossbows being counted among vertical bow users. Even recurve/longbow user numbers are up.  I believe we will see this trend for a long time.

As so many have said here, I'm fine with the ethical choices of others. They may not have to work as hard as I do to get and make a close, accurate shot. But, I know what gives me the greatest joy. I know there are some who have greater adventure than I do (those fellows who disappear in the moose bush of Alaska for example) but there are too many who have far less.

I've been tinkering for about two hours before church this morning with my bows and a DIY phone/video set up. The videos (if I get em) are moving pictures for me to enjoy. All part of the bowhunting experience for me.

I'm looking forward to replacing myself with at least four grandchildren in the field. All but one is 8 and under.  They want a papaw who shows them how, rather just reminisce about it.  Ha, they are going to get both I'm afraid.