Plastic Vanes and Heavier Draw Weight?

[Robzilla]

This is really a two part question about Blazer vanes and heavier draw weight.

I've been shooting a 45# longbow for about a year.  I recently got a great deal on a 60# recurve takedown that I couldn't pass up.  As I started shooting the recurve, I noticed the back tension is easier to engage with the heavier bow than with the lighter one. Is this normal?

The second part is I used some arrows that had Blazer vanes on them that seems to be flying good.  Has anyone else been able to get good arrow flight with plastic vanes.

A personal note.  I want to thank everyone one here for all the questions and comments you have posted. Y'all have helped me in my traditional archery journey more than I can ever express. I'm forever grateful.

[McDave]

My own personal experience is that it is more difficult to engage the back muscles as the poundage increases.  Arne (Moebow) who has a lot more experience instructing people than I do has commented a number of times on here that people ought to learn on a lighter weight bow until they learn to engage the back muscles.  I think the reason might be that you have to get the draw started with the arm muscles, and the arm muscles get so engaged in drawing a heavier weight bow that it is difficult to transfer to the back muscles.  Engaging the back muscles is not a natural thing to do for most people, and it has to be learned.  Of course, most is not the same as all, and YMMV.

Your question on vanes would get more, and probably better answers in PowWow.  Maybe a mod could transfer this post over there?

[McDave]

I might add that many people have commented to me, and it is my own experience, that it is easier to get a clean release as the poundage goes up.

[Charlie Lamb]

I'd be surprised if you were getting good flight off the shelf but with an elevated rest not. I shot Bohning vanes for years out of my 70#+ recurves with a bear weather rest. The bows were always carefully tuned.

[Sam McMichael]

Shooting a heavy bow will take some time, but it can be accomplished with dedication and work. Just go slowly and be patient. Anyone can learn to  pull a heavy bow, but the issue often comes with developing good form. Form should always trump poundage.

As for vanes, I have never had a bow that shot them well off the shelf. (This was way back in the 1980's, so it is possible that plastic vanes are made with better characteristics now.) I have tried it on bows from 40 # to 78#. None of my bows had elevated rests, though. To me, they just aren't worth the effort. I have never tried it using an elevated rest.

[M60gunner]

Want to pull heavy bows? You need to find an excersise program that builds the right muscles. In my younger days I picked up on a program that just used your bow mixed with daily pushups. I shot an 80# BW for years.
 Only guy I knew who could shoot vanes of the shelf was Mattlock. He ran his BH pretty high. Personally I prefer a raised rest

[bigbadjon]

I shoot blazer vanes of of elevated rests and get good results. I never shoot off of the shelf personally. If a bow is meant to shoot off the shelf I grind it down and put on a brush rest similar to the Jack Harrison longbows.

[Terry Green]

My own personal experience is that it is more difficult to engage the back muscles as the poundage increases.  Arne (Moebow) who has a lot more experience instructing people than I do has commented a number of times on here that people ought to learn on a lighter weight bow until they learn to engage the back muscles.  I think the reason might be that you have to get the draw started with the arm muscles, and the arm muscles get so engaged in drawing a heavier weight bow that it is difficult to transfer to the back muscles.  Engaging the back muscles is not a natural thing to do for most people, and it has to be learned.  Of course, most is not the same as all, and YMMV.

Your question on vanes would get more, and probably better answers in PowWow.  Maybe a mod could transfer this post over there?

No disrespect to Dave, but I have to disagree on my part. And this is just me and other folks that shoot heavier bows. Lighter bows for a lot of us are blase' to draw.... therefore they don't engaged much of anything much for us. That being they don't challenge our physique or our abilities and therefore we don't engage or lock on auraline like we should. I don't mean this to sound wrong, but like bows to me and others seem like rubber bands, and it just doesn't and Gage physically or psychologically. Now when I say that, Denny Sturgis probably would engage in my bows because he shoots 80 and 90 pounds. But I don't go hack it on him for shooting heavyweight bows. Now our read some more post past Dave's.

[Terry Green]

Okay I read the rest and the only thing I can add his veins are veins are veins. I'm not sure what boy has to do with whether it's veins or Fletching. However I do not use plastic veins color nor do I ever see I need for them. I do know in like the Washington state area it rains a lot maybe some waterproofing would be an advantage and helpful to keeping the feathers Dry..... but also a Fletch cover would do wonders.

If you must shoot vains please do so.... but I truly do not believe it is bow poundage weight related in any form or fashion

[algstick]

I shot 4 fletch plastic vanes off an elevated rest from my 70# Silvertip and it worked great. I think those bows were designed with that in mind, at least that is the way Mr. Shafer set his bows up.
I sold it a few years ago when I committed to longbows only. Wished I still had it.

[Texoma]

I have also noticed I get a cleaner release with heavier bows,I assumed it was the heavier weight making it easier to engage back tension. But I am new to this back tension thing, as a kid I was taught to just open my hand so now am trying to get rid of a thirty year bad habit.

[motorhead7963]

I will weigh in here, as I have a Savannah LB @60lbs and I have a set of arrows I fletched with vanes that I shoot off the shelf. I get excellent flight with them, I purchased them several yrs ago and cant remember what brand they are but I will use them until they are gone. One thing I noticed with vanes is how quiet the arrow flight is, with the right BH. Personally I didn't find it too difficult to tune them to my bow.

[kenneth butler]

  It might be that you had to engage your back to draw the bow. Even though most have a hard time with heavier bows, too light makes it easy to just use arm strength, as stated. Heaver bows put more pressure on the fingers and snaps them open much quicker  when you relax them. That results in a cleaner release.  Just like most things, some where in the middle is best. Both too light and too heavy can cause problems.
   Vanes fly as well as feathers but are deflected more with any contact. (not as forgiving) Special tuning,and a built up shelf work. The easiest for most is to stick on an elevated rest and get the vane and nock orientation exact for clearance.
   Blazers are only 2"  Size is another subject. Some require more fletching to get good flight. The better you are tuned the less fletching you can get by with. >>>----> Ken

[RedShaft]

Those blazers shoot great. If you have a well tuned arrow they will shoot fine from a rest.
I have used bear weather rest or similar stick and had good results.
A properly tuned arrow will have the shaft out away from the bow with no fletching contact anyhow.

Sometimes you get even better clearance with the cock feather in.

[Asummerlin]

I have tried to shoot vanes off the shelf a number of times and I always get terrible arrow flight, vanes just don't collapse and absorb the shock of the riser like feathers do. Also not sure how bow poundage would affect that but I cant see how it would help it at all. 

[kenneth butler]

Asummerlin.  It was a two part question  draw weight/back tension   &   vanes/arrow flight.
 The Blazers made it three part because they are only 2" long. I tried to answer all three in my above post. A couple of us may have been typing at the same time. >>>----> Ken