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Author Topic: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?  (Read 3691 times)

Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« on: November 13, 2018, 01:19:22 PM »
Some ask me why I spend so much time tuning. For me, my ultimate goal is accurate, fixed blade broadhead flight. By going through this process, I’ll know if I can get my broadheads to impact exactly where I want them to. If you primarily practice with field points, you’ll need your broadheads to impact with your field points if you expect to have the same type of accuracy while hunting. In addition, a well tuned arrow can aid in penetration.

Once you've dialed in your shot sequence and nailed down your form, it’s time to tune. If you don’t know which arrow spine to start with, check online as there are a few good arrow spine selectors for traditional set ups. These are some things to keep in mind: total arrow weight, tip/insert weight, broadhead (weight availability) and arrow GPI (grains per inch). For myself, I prefer carbon arrows and if I need a heavy arrow, I prefer a heavier GPI and/or I’ll try to add the weight to the tip end (heavier insert or tip). I would suggest staying away from adding weight to the nock end of the shaft.

For myself, I prefer to paper tune, bare shaft tune and as a final check, I’ll shoot a bare shaft, fletched shaft and broadhead tipped shaft downrange (using all three methods is not necessary).

For paper tuning, I get my most reliable results by standing 6ft from the paper, so for me, my bow hand is about 4.5ft from the paper.

When bare shafting, I start off at about 10 yards to warm up and double check that the shaft will hit the target. Then I’ll move to 15 yards, but I won’t start reading the results until I hit the 20yd mark. For me, I prefer to have someone standing behind me. I try to watch the shaft flight in air as well as it’s impact in relation to my aiming point. The person behind me watches for the same thing to help confirm. I’ll also try to keep as much feather weight on the rear of the arrow, so I’ll strip just the feathers off with a razor blade, leaving the quills still attached to the shaft.

For a final test, I’ll shoot a bare shaft, fletched shaft and broadhead tipped shaft downrange. My goal is to get them to group at 20+ yards. If I do my job and my tuning is on, all three results will confirm.

If there’s a tuning error and my form is solid, the results will mimic each other on all three tests. For example, if I had a nock left, the paper would show a left tear (RT hand shooter). The bare shaft in flight would kick left out of the bow, slowly plane to the right and impact to the right of the intended impact point and if I shot all three arrows together, the feathered shaft might be on or slightly to the right of the X and the bare shaft and the broadhead tipped shaft would be even further to the right (Impact distances would depend on severity of issue).

Please keep in mind that these tuning tips are from my experiences and those with others, but may not work for everyone when it comes down to tuning a traditional bow.

Below are a list of things to try when diagnosing a tuning issue. I feel the toughest part in tuning is trying to read the results and always remember, when it's time to adjust your bow and/or arrow don't change more than one thing at a time.



NOCK HIGH -The arrow nock kicks up, resulting in a lower impact.
(This one is a tough one as it’s the one that I’ve seen so many false readings.)


1) Nock set is too high - Move your nock set down in very small increments. Re-shoot after each small adjustment. This is where adjustable string nocks come in handy. I have a video on how to tie one type.

2) Nock set is too low - This can be a false reading. i.e. The arrow kicks nock low off the string, impacts shelf, then kicks nock high. Raise nock set in small increments. This is where adjustable string nocks come in handy. I have a video on how to tie one type.

3) Finger pressure on string - Where you add pressure on the string can affect the amount of tension on the upper or lower limb which could affect nock travel. Try to keep consistent with where and how much pressure is placed.

4) Hand pressure on grip - Where you add pressure on the grip can affect the tension on the upper or lower limb which could affect nock travel. Try to keep consistent with where and how much pressure is placed. i.e. I have one brand of bow that tunes better when pushing into the throat of the grip.

5) Nock sets - A double nock set can help, but make sure the gap is large enough so it doesn't pinch the arrow nock at full draw. In addition, don't make the gap too large as it becomes ineffective. i.e. I have mine set so at full draw, the top and bottom nock set just touch my arrow nock. My bows have about a 1/16” gap.

6) Tiller - If you have an ILF bow, you can also adjust your tiller. i.e. For myself, closer to even tiller for 3 under and a slight positive for split finger. If you're buying a custom bow, be sure to let your bowyer know if you're shooting spilt or 3 under.

7) Feather contact - Although feathers fold down, I’ve had shelf contact with larger feathers translate to a nock high (With paper tuning). i.e. For my set up, my top feather is orientated between 11 and 12 o’clock. This gives me the least amount of feather contact.

8) Spine - At times I’ve seen a nock high from a weak spine, especially with a high FOC arrow.



NOCK LOW -The arrow nock kicks down, resulting in a higher impact
(In most cases that I’ve seen, this one is a little easier to read.)


1) Nock set is too low - Raise arrow nock in slight increments. Re-shoot after every slight adjustment. This is where adjustable string nocks come in handy. I have a video on how to tie one type.

2) If it’s not the nock set - Try one of the other nock high suggestions, numbers 3, 4, 5, and 6.



NOCK LEFT -The arrow nock kicks left, resulting in an impact to the right.
(This is for a right hand shooter.)


1) Weak arrow spine - If you have room to cut, shorten arrow. If applicable to situation, shift the weight from a heavy tip to a heavy insert. i.e. From a 200gr tip with a standard insert to a 125gr tip and 100gr insert (Depending on the standard insert weight, you may be +/- 10gr. In addition, this will only make a minimal amount of difference.) In some cases, you may need to move up in spine. If you have total arrow weight to spare, try a lighter weight tip.

2) Grip on bow - Double check to see that you're not gripping the bow. Torquing the handle a little could throw your arrow right of impact point. (Goes back to having good form before tuning.)

3) Release on string - Be careful as to not pluck your string or collapse on the shot as it could throw your arrow right of impact point. (Goes back to having good form before tuning.)

4) Strike plate - You could build out your strike plate. Try and use a thicker material (I typically don’t do this, unless it’s a metal riser that’s cut way past center.)

5) Brace height - As a last resort, you could play with your brace. Don’t go past the bowyer’s recommended range.

6) Feather contact - Although feathers fold down, I’ve had strike plate contact with larger feathers translate to a nock left (With paper tuning).



NOCK RIGHT -The arrow nock kicks right, resulting in an impact to the left.
(This is for a right hand shooter)


1) Stiff arrow spine - You may need a longer arrow. If applicable to the situation, shift the heavy weight insert to a heavy weight tip. i.e. From a 125gr tip and 100gr insert to a 200gr tip with a standard insert (Depending on standard insert weight, you may be +/- 10gr. In addition, this will only make a minimal amount of difference.) In some cases, you may need to move down in spine. If you have total arrow weight to spare, try a heavier weight tip.

2) Grip on bow - Double check to see that you're not gripping the bow. Torquing the handle a little can throw your arrow left of impact point. (Goes back to having good form before tuning.)

3) Release on string - Be careful as to not pluck your string or collapse on the shot as it can throw your arrow left of impact point. (Goes back to having good form before tuning.)

4) Strike plate - If you have a really thick strike plate, you could try a thinner one.

5) Brace height - As a last resort, you could play with your brace. Don’t go past the bowyer’s recommended range.







Per request, I've added the nock tying video.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 05:57:38 PM by Ryan K Sanpei »

Bisch

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 03:46:39 PM »
 :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:

Wow, Ryan! Very thorough and complete tutorial!!!!! This is very good info, even for more experienced guys!!!!!

Bisch

Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 03:57:48 PM »
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper:

Wow, Ryan! Very thorough and complete tutorial!!!!! This is very good info, even for more experienced guys!!!!!

Bisch

Thank you Bisch! I was a little worried about posting this, but it seems to really help my friends and I. If you think it's good info, than I'm stoked!  :notworthy:
Just this past week my wife was getting a nock low and we tried a few things, ended up being the finger pressure on the bowstring. She had to put more pressure on the pointer.

Aloha!    :shaka:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Ryan K Sanpei »

Offline JustinP

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 06:34:49 PM »
Thanks Ryan!


I've owned, and shot the same longbow and setup for the last 25 or so years. So my tuning skills are rusty to say the least, ok nonexistent.


I just bought a new recurve, and I was sort of dreading the whole impending tuning process.
But having this wealth of information and knowledge all in one easy to find place has me excited to get started now.
Jack Smith Blackhawk longbow 62lbs.

Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 07:53:57 PM »
Thanks Ryan!


I've owned, and shot the same longbow and setup for the last 25 or so years. So my tuning skills are rusty to say the least, ok nonexistent.


I just bought a new recurve, and I was sort of dreading the whole impending tuning process.
But having this wealth of information and knowledge all in one easy to find place has me excited to get started now.

I hope it helps Justin!  :thumbsup:

Offline Pfranchise

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2018, 06:57:13 AM »
Nice write up Ryan, this should help a lot of people out there.

Offline azhunter

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2018, 07:59:39 AM »
Ryan, you always take time to help others with very good detailed information.
Thank you!

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 08:22:38 AM »
Thanks for the help Roy. I really wanted to make sure this information got posted to the How To- Resources.  It's that valuable. It will sure eliminate a lot head scratching and questions in the future.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online BruceT

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 08:42:39 AM »
    Great job Ryan !!! And now I know where to find it when the need arises !!
Explained in the same detail as your “Over the rainbow” adjustable nock .
    Thanks again .
If you can shoot just one arrow in control,you can shoot all of them in control !
  Jim Casto Jr.

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2018, 09:18:56 AM »
Leave topic on PowWow please.

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Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 12:16:23 PM »
Thank you for all the kind words! Much appreciated Gang!  :shaka:

Offline Msturm

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 01:24:07 PM »
This is the first time I have used the print function on this site. Great concise piece of info.


Msturm
Stalker Coyote FXT Long bow 49#

Aloha!

Offline JohnV

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 02:26:59 PM »
Very good Ryan.  Would you please include a link to view your video on making an adjustable nocking point.  Thanks!
Proud Regular Member of the Professional Bowhunters Society

Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2018, 05:36:49 PM »
This is the first time I have used the print function on this site. Great concise piece of info.


Msturm

Mahalo Mike! Hope all is going well!!!

Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2018, 05:37:13 PM »
Very good Ryan.  Would you please include a link to view your video on making an adjustable nocking point.  Thanks!

You got it!  :thumbsup:

Offline slowbowjoe

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2018, 05:44:54 PM »
Excellent Ryan! Great to read a comprehensive explanation including the subleties like finger pressure and grip. And the last photo is awesome!

Offline Ryan Sanpei

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Re: Trying to Tune but out of Ideas?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2018, 01:06:17 AM »
Excellent Ryan! Great to read a comprehensive explanation including the subleties like finger pressure and grip. And the last photo is awesome!

Thank you! I really enjoy shooting bows and cameras.  :goldtooth:

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