Treesaddle...anyone use'm?

[Tom1958]

Wonder what I am doing wrong? I got the Kestrel with all the bells and whistles. I never got past the trial period just hanging 3' off the ground. It just felt awkward. I tried it 4-5 times but then lost interest.
Do you all use knee pads? I had not tried it with knee pads. It's been on the shelf unused since June.
 Maybe I need to try again. It sound like you can shoot behind you better than a treestand? I had numerous time this year where I could not get a shot off at deer that were in range but I couldn't get around the tree.
 Tedd

Hey Tedd, where in Pa are ya? I'd be glad to help you out if you ever get to N Westmoreland County.

There are 2 basic positions with a saddle..."sitters" or "learners". If you want to primarily sit, then knee pads will be a huge help. I mostly lean with about 50% of my weight on my feet and 50% on my butt. I can easily spend 4 hours in that position. But I do like to rest a little on long days, so knee pads allow me to rest my knees against the tree for short periods. But mostly, I just lean back.
Tether height and bridge length will effect comfort a lot. 
I think a platform is more comfortable than a ring of steps (ROS). Some guys love ROS. I'm a platform (Predator platform) guy.
I can shoot 360 around most trees from my Predator with one extra step on each side. I can shoot 360 without the extra steps, but I have much more slow-control movement around the tree if I have a step on each side of the Predator. My top step, for however I climbed the tree, will be located at platform height on my weak side (weak side is the right side for a right hand shooter) so that step is necessary for climbing anyway. The strong side step can be one added to the platform strap, or it can be a screw-in or bolt where legal. Sometimes it will work out that a branch is in just the perfect spot to step out onto from the platform. I have 1 Ameristep strap-on step about 10" off the platform on my strong side.

Tree selection is much better with a saddle. I can't tell you how often there is only one tree in the right spot and it's leaning toward the direction I expect to shoot. The side the tree is leaning to is horrible for a stand and the opposite side won't allow a shot because the trunk is in the way. Trying to hang a stand on a side lean doesn't work either for most stand designs.
 
But with a saddle, I can be on the opposite side of the lean and still be able to shoot toward the direction of the tree's lean.
To me, there's nothing worse than trying to sit in a traditional hang on stand on the side the tree leans. Not only is it uncomfortable, there's also the chance I won't have elbow clearance of the trunk when I draw. If my elbow bumps something when I reach full draw, I will blow the shot 99% of the time.   

[hickstick]

ditto Tom1958.  I do both, sit and lean...I wear simple McDavid hex knee pads, over my base layer, under my outers all the time now...even if I'm ground hunting.  I've punished my knees for far to long and can't kneel for very long without discomfort.  so when I'm in the saddle and sit, the knee pads help against the tree.  I have also used the seat cushion fro a treestand strapped to the tree at knee height before and it works (its just another thing to carry).

look at the http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=165438.msg2839935#msg2839935 thread for ease of shooting videos with a stickbow.

PS...I use 2 or 3 Stepp ladder steps as my platform (depending on tree dia') and love it!  depending on your foot size, the heel of your boot can sit right down inside the space between the step and the tree. 

[Roger9070]

I'm a converted saddle hunter too, best thing I ever did and I just turned 61. Not for everyone and does require some learning curve. I took it another level learning how to use arborist SRT climbing technique and rated gear, which if you have suitable trees with enough low level limbs eliminates the need for steps or sticks to ascend and descend the tree. I can't use SRT all the places I hunt but when I can its the lightest possible setup otherwise I use either sticks or steps. Regardless of how you climb or whether you use a regular lock-on platform or one of the smaller platforms the saddle and tether is the key, which is safer than a fall arrest system but also allows you to safely go off platform and shoot all around the tree. Once you practice this a couple feet of the ground then take it up the tree its hard not to love.

That is great I never tried using the SRT method myself but I'm glad to see at 61 you are experimenting and blowing the notion out of the water it's only a young man's game!  I have a couple of buddies who are older and hardcore hunters and they keep telling me they are too old to try anything new...  Just goes to show that as long as you keep an open mind you are never too old to try a new techniques or methods.  Good hunting and have fun!

[deerfly]

ha! thanks Roger, I've been fairly athletic all my life and still in decent shape for my age, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I have to work harder to go hard these days and it hurts longer afterwards. Still, the SRT thing wasn't a big deal physically for me. I've always been that guy that walks for miles if necessary but I've also incorporated some mountain biking and canoeing where I can into my scouting and hunting regimen the past 10 years or so too. I've always had that go for it attitude and doing some of these things tends to help me stay in better shape, although I could stand to lose about 20lbs right now.

[Tajue17]

from a non user perspective this thing looks too constrictive,,,, by what I'm seeing you guys can't shoot forward, certain angles with canted bow because the bottom limb will hit the tree or the opposite side of tree than your bow holding hand?

I heard from compound shooting friends these are very comfortable and they can shoot a lot of angles with their 34" bows, but how bout a long stickbow.  in a climber or chain on stand I  know I can shoot 360 degrees if I'm standing cause I can lean out,,, sometimes I've leaned out so far my lanyard held me there at a steep angle MAYBE same as this tree saddle would do I'm not sure,,, serious question--> can you shoot all directions with this set up without pushing your feet and walking against the bark and making that bark noise that makes deer look up which I had happen with fleece jackets when sitting down in a stand. 

[Tom1958]

from a non user perspective this thing looks too constrictive,,,, by what I'm seeing you guys can't shoot forward, certain angles with canted bow because the bottom limb will hit the tree or the opposite side of tree than your bow holding hand?

I heard from compound shooting friends these are very comfortable and they can shoot a lot of angles with their 34" bows, but how bout a long stickbow.  in a climber or chain on stand I  know I can shoot 360 degrees if I'm standing cause I can lean out,,, sometimes I've leaned out so far my lanyard held me there at a steep angle MAYBE same as this tree saddle would do I'm not sure,,, serious question--> can you shoot all directions with this set up without pushing your feet and walking against the bark and making that bark noise that makes deer look up which I had happen with fleece jackets when sitting down in a stand.

If you compare an apples to apple style of shooting, the saddle still blows away a traditional stand and conventional harness for shooting 360. I shoot 60" and 64" recurves from my saddle with no issues. Actually, I think I worried about bow clearance MORE when shooting from a traditional hang-on stand than with a saddle and mini platform.

Yes, there is a chance of making noise against the bark if you are using a ring of steps. Its one reason why I don't like a ROS. I much prefer a Predator platform rather than a ROS.

When it comes to mobility in the tree, there's no way a traditional harness can compare with a saddle.
I'm not sure if this was already stated in this thread, but a saddle also allows the hunter to remain on the side of the tree with shade. Can't really "follow the shade" as the sun moves across the sky with a conventional stand and harness. I'm often stuck on the seat with sun glare in my eyes and with less effective camo when in the sun. Its usually better to be in the shade for maximum camouflage. And on hot days, being in the sun sucks. Its nice to position myself in the shade of the tree trunk.
Conversely, on frigid days I may want to soak some rays and get out of the shade of the tree trunk. You can't pick and choose position in the tree with a conventional harness.

I'd like to make a point about bow canting. I'm primarily a whitetail hunter, shooting from a tree 90% of the time. I think canting limits my shooting more than a vertically held bow.
I've learned to shoot just as well with my recurve held vertically without having to worry if my bow limbs will clear the trunk when shooting toward the backside of the tree. Think about it...we are standing in a vertical tree...keeping the bow parallel to the tree allows much more range of clearance for our limbs. I do practice shooting with a cant for those times I have no choice but to cant, but those times are few.


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[Tajue17]

any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow???   as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!

not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,,  so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?   

[Tom1958]

any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow???   as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!

not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,,  so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?   

I think there are some YouTube vids somewhere that show guys shooting trad bows from a saddle. 

I usually wear hats with a bill too, and it helps but it ain't as good as actually being in the shade. The shade aspect is just one more perk of a saddle...it's not a make or break reason to own one, but it's a nice luxury to have the ability to adjust positions in the tree.

Do my feet hurt? Not when using a mini platform. And not on a ROS during shorter hunts. But on an all-day hang, IMO, ROS suck.
One difficulty about ROS that a lot guys have is shooting toward their weak side. A lot of us tend to under draw shooting weak side from a ROS and we don't shoot well. It's 50% of the reason why I prefer a Predator platform. When deer are presenting shots for me in that "weak side zone", I just stand on the platform and shoot just like I was standing on my Screaming Eagle stand.
 
Tree saddles are a very personalized style of being in a tree. I doubt any 2 saddle guys do things the same way. The greatest variations seem to be in climbing methods... which needs to be address just the same with conventional stands, and foot placement. There are as many variations with styles of ROS or platforms, or presets or run and gun set-ups as there are guys in saddles.
 
Saddles, and their associated gear and set-up, do take some learning. No denying that. I think that's where guys get turned off. They expect to go straight from a ladder or conventional stand to a saddle with no learning curve. It's not the case. But after a couple years of hunting from a saddle, there is no way I will ever go back to conventional harnesses. Even when I hunt out of a traditional hang-on, I still wear my saddle.

And I've said it a 100 times, saddles are the greatest thing for hanging conventional stands. Once you hang a stand while attached to the tree via a tether, you will never hang another stand while using a lineman belt. The difference is mind blowing.
 

[Tom1958]

any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow???   as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!

not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,,  so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?   

Forgot to tell you...There are guys over at saddlehunter.com  from MA that are talking about a get-together. I'm positive they would welcome you with open arms if you wanted to join them and try-out some stuff. https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/massachusetts-saddle-get-together.11010/

[Roger9070]

ha! thanks Roger, I've been fairly athletic all my life and still in decent shape for my age, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I have to work harder to go hard these days and it hurts longer afterwards. Still, the SRT thing wasn't a big deal physically for me. I've always been that guy that walks for miles if necessary but I've also incorporated some mountain biking and canoeing where I can into my scouting and hunting regimen the past 10 years or so too. I've always had that go for it attitude and doing some of these things tends to help me stay in better shape, although I could stand to lose about 20lbs right now.

Deerfly,

Sounds to me that the younger guys would have a hard time keeping up with you!  As for the twenty pounds, I don't know many of us that couldn't stand to lose at least that much, especially after the holidays!  I find the saddle lends itself to hunting further back and many times I have worn mine scouting looking for a new location, I never did that with a climber or a hang on stand.

Myself I prefer pre-set locations but I have experimented more this year with a run and gun approach using a set of Muddy Pro sticks.  Of the two I still prefer the pre-set system but I won't hesitate to do an on the fly hunt if I find fresh sign.  As to the SRT I have read about it but have never experimented because I would need to get the right equipment and more rope, maybe one day I will.

I just wish some of the older guys that I know and are friends with were as open-minded as you I think it would improve their hunting experience or at the very least give them another tool in the hunting toolbox.  Best of luck to you and I hope I am as active and willing to try new things at 61 as you are, I still have seven years to go!

Roger,

[deerfly]

tajue check out this guys videos. I think he's one of founders or principles at tethered.

https://www.youtube.com/user/G2Adventures/videos

[Roger9070]

any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow???   as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!

not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,,  so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?   

Tajue17,

Yes, Boswell has a video on YouTube showing him shooting a longbow from the Trophyline TreeSaddle.


You can tuck yourself against the tree you are just facing it instead of it being at your back.  Also, you would not set up with your shots or the deer trail in front of you would set up with the trail or anticipated location of the deer to your left for a right-hand shooter and to the right for a left- hand shooter.  As with all shooting from trees, there can be a degree of difficulty on certain shots with a traditional stand or saddle. 

As to your feet bothering you for some, they do claim a little discomfort especially when using screw in tree-steps but many people use a small platform, a ring of Ameri-Steps, or Wild Edge Steps and have no issues at all.  I have a couple of pre-set locations where I use screw in tree-steps and all I do is just shift my weight from one foot to the other or move my foot from the arch to the ball and it alleviates the pressure. 

I hope this helps and as I said before I think they are a tool that should be in every bowhunters toolbox for that spot that a traditional type of stand just isn't the right tool for the job.  Good Hunting...

Roger,

[deerfly]

roger, the older you get the faster you get old. You'll be there in no time.

[Roger9070]

from a non user perspective this thing looks too constrictive,,,, by what I'm seeing you guys can't shoot forward, certain angles with canted bow because the bottom limb will hit the tree or the opposite side of tree than your bow holding hand?

I heard from compound shooting friends these are very comfortable and they can shoot a lot of angles with their 34" bows, but how bout a long stickbow.  in a climber or chain on stand I  know I can shoot 360 degrees if I'm standing cause I can lean out,,, sometimes I've leaned out so far my lanyard held me there at a steep angle MAYBE same as this tree saddle would do I'm not sure,,, serious question--> can you shoot all directions with this set up without pushing your feet and walking against the bark and making that bark noise that makes deer look up which I had happen with fleece jackets when sitting down in a stand.

If you compare an apples to apple style of shooting, the saddle still blows away a traditional stand and conventional harness for shooting 360. I shoot 60" and 64" recurves from my saddle with no issues. Actually, I think I worried about bow clearance MORE when shooting from a traditional hang-on stand than with a saddle and mini platform.

Yes, there is a chance of making noise against the bark if you are using a ring of steps. Its one reason why I don't like a ROS. I much prefer a Predator platform rather than a ROS.

When it comes to mobility in the tree, there's no way a traditional harness can compare with a saddle.
I'm not sure if this was already stated in this thread, but a saddle also allows the hunter to remain on the side of the tree with shade. Can't really "follow the shade" as the sun moves across the sky with a conventional stand and harness. I'm often stuck on the seat with sun glare in my eyes and with less effective camo when in the sun. Its usually better to be in the shade for maximum camouflage. And on hot days, being in the sun sucks. Its nice to position myself in the shade of the tree trunk.
Conversely, on frigid days I may want to soak some rays and get out of the shade of the tree trunk. You can't pick and choose position in the tree with a conventional harness.

I'd like to make a point about bow canting. I'm primarily a whitetail hunter, shooting from a tree 90% of the time. I think canting limits my shooting more than a vertically held bow.
I've learned to shoot just as well with my recurve held vertically without having to worry if my bow limbs will clear the trunk when shooting toward the backside of the tree. Think about it...we are standing in a vertical tree...keeping the bow parallel to the tree allows much more range of clearance for our limbs. I do practice shooting with a cant for those times I have no choice but to cant, but those times are few.


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Tom all great points and the only place we differ is the platform vs the ROS.  While I will agree for most people the platform will provide more comfort and be much more familiar I think when it comes to trees with a large diameter leaning instead of moving around the tree will limit some shots.  How much depends on the diameter of the tree and how willing you are to stand on the edge of the platform.  Now if you add a Wild Edge step on either side of the platform that is the best of both worlds and doesn't add hardly any weight at all.

I personally prefer a ring of steps just because I like to move around the tree and I like the flexibility it provides, can I say it's better than a platform especially when you can add a step on each side and I would have to say no it's not better but I still like the ring of steps.  I have never had a deer spook from any noise either, my feet rarely come in contact with the bark as I move around, so while some have voiced concern over this I have never experienced it while hunting.  I like to move slowly around the tree and scan my surroundings and try and spot the deer before they get close enough for a shot.  I also like to lean with one leg straight and the other bent sort of facing away from the tree and the ring of steps allows me to do these things easily.  As with a lot of things with the saddle, it comes down to personal preference and dialing it into your hunting style.

I am planning on trying and experimenting this year more with platforms, Wild Edge steps, and even some marine exhaust tubing and combinations of them all as platform options this year I will keep you posted.  I think the main thing to keep in mind is that with the saddle the options and combinations are almost limitless and that allows us to adapt to almost any hunting situation we encounter.  Don't be afraid to experiment and try a saddle with all the different platforms until you find the one that fits your needs and hunting style.  Much like traditional bows, their strengths are there simplicity and versatility in the field.

Roger,

[Roger9070]

roger, the older you get the faster you get old. You'll be there in no time.

Haha, Deerfly good one I will have to use that one on my buddies!  My favorite line about age and I'm not sure who said it or if I'm bastardizing it is:  "Youth and vigor is no match for age and treachery."!  If I had the wisdom and patience I have now combined with the strength and vigor of when I was twenty I would be a deer assassin!

Now if I can only figure out how to support myself by deer hunting instead of working I would be set....

Roger

[Tajue17]

okay I'm going to have to check this out,, thanks for all the links I might have to look into one of these for next season,,, being honest I think my LW hand climber messed my lower back up two separate times hence why I'm height shy above 10' with them now.. 

went to that treesaddle forum on that Mass meetup and that's pretty cool I might try to make it but I don't want to register there just yet until I know I want one,,, Hickstick has one though I know him maybe hick can show me his.

 

[Overspined]

I have the guidos web. I had a tree saddle. I think the web is great for rifle, super comfy and no knee pads necessary, but it’s not perfect for Trad bow. I’m going to try some more and it works but all the moving people speak of is noisier than you’d think in a quiet woods. Pretty much have to set up with the correct direction because turning around isn’t a piece of cake. That’s my experience. I’ll have to try the lone wolf seat as a platform I like that idea. You just need to bungee it to the tree and it stays put.

[Tedd]

Tried mine again today. Getting used to it now. I'm going to keep at it so I can add a tree saddle to my options. My accuracy isn't good out of it yet. I feel a little tight over all, like I can't rotate fully when drawing. I lift weights every other day and am probably stiffer than I should be. I have pretty poor flexibility.
 Not wanting to hi-jack, but this thread did help me with something else. After watching a bunch of tree saddle bow shooting videos, one guy did something that got me thinking about how to increase my "behind the tree shooting" out of a lone wolf climber. I worked on that, made a quick mod and now have really increased the shooting coverage. I'll post it on another thread.
Tedd

[deerfly]

Overspined, bungee will only help keep it from slipping down the tree. The seat component needs more pressure than a bungee can provide to sink the teeth in deep enough without any other weight on the platform to resist slipping as you push on it from the sides while maneuvering around the tree. If you use a bungee, when it slips and it will, it will effect your ability to move and it will also make some noise as the teeth crunch against the bark as it shifts. In my experience you won't be able to move around the tree with any confidence that the base won't slip without a ratchet strap. Attaching the ratchet can be tricky while perched on such a small platform though.

That said, if you're able to deal with the issues involved in using the climber seat it can work. All things considered it was just too much of a PIA for me. Sticks and a predator platform is just so much less time and hassle to get in and out of the tree. Plus the predator is a superior platform on the tree vs a climber seat.

I think if you really want to use a climber approach, you'd be better off using the platform base instead of the seat. Its big enough to move around on as you need to make those adjustments and then attach the ratchet. Of course its heavier than the seat, but it will be easier, safer and you'll have more real estate to move around on.

I thought about doing a video with mine yesterday to demonstrate what I'm talking about, but had too many other things I needed to do. As luck would have it though I found 2 videos a couple guys did about this very subject. They were published a week or so ago, not many have viewed them yet, but they are very good at showing the issues using the climber seat.

Part 1 is a guy that is very nimble and version 2 someone not so nimble, non flexible was the term he uses, lol. My experience was somewhere between these two with both adjusting the cam on the fly and securing the strap. Both videos they use some kind of strap to secure the climber seat. I can't tell if its a ratchet or cam buckle though. I used a ratchet.

Part 1


Part 2


Around 8:20 into part 2 you can see where he starts pushing from the sides and you can see the stand flex on the tree. In my experience the more you do this the more the teeth cut into the bark and the loser the seat became and would eventually start to slip. If you pushed from farther out on the platform where you have more leverage then that would strain the connection more easily too. Even with ratchet tension to start, it needed an additional click or two as after the teeth sawed deeper into the bark. To be fair in most hunting situations you wouldn't move that much in the tree, so the sawing effect would be less. But it can and does happen requiring additional tightening, which requires more movement and noise.

In terms of noise, I tested the climber seat on old growth pine, oak, hickory, sweetgum and swamp ash. I have all this on my property so it was easy to do. Of those pine was the noisiest by far. In part 2 he states it wasn't noisy. I couldn't tell either way, but the tree he's on looks like some kind of hardwood, so his experience noise wise jives with mine.

Another thing and I think important, I used a 36' climbing rope in SRT configuration (petzl rig, hand ascender with foot aider) as my tether system, which is all rated search and rescue and arborist gear and technique. In part 2 he uses a somewhat precarious method with the tether and his linemans belt to go off the platform to make adjustments. Too risky for me. With SRT system I could easily and safely go off the platform to make the adjustments then ascend back up on the platform to continue. When descending I just went off the platform, disconnected it from the tree, dropped it on the ground and lowered myself down on the climbing line. Very easy and very safe. SRT requires more equipment and it can be noisy if you're not careful, but I'll take safety over noise every time.

Also, using SRT system as my tether I have the option to descend but leave the climbing line and platform in the tree. Then for whatever reason re-ascend on the rope without having to go through all the hassle of climbing with the seat again. Or take everything down and move on.

[hickstick]

Ted...no prob...I can definitely help you out.  we are getting together towards the end of April at Auburn Sportsmans club. Let me know.