Custom vs production

[Mike Mecredy]

Personally, I like them all.  I've got some self bows, made for me by others, that I got through the annual bow swap that I like to shoot.  I have some old recurves I like to as well, and those that I've made.  I can honestly say I've shot thousands of custom bows, since I made them for others, and like to I try them out before I ship them, but they shoot just like anything else available on the market.  My favorites are the old Ben Pearson recurves (colts, cougars, palominos, mustangs etc.) when I see one at a yard sale or something I always grab it.   I've been a professional bowyer since 2006, and I still haven't made myself a nice bow yet, I've started, but it seems I always end up selling it to somebody.  Maybe this year I'll do that, make a nice bow for myself.

[MPaul]

I have owned 6 production bows 3  of which I still own one custom and made one self bow.. In the past I typically purchased one bow and just learned to shoot it year after year. Never changed I just figured I had a bow why do I need another. Then as I got older and a little better off financially I started trying different style bows and different grips. And I still tend to hold on the bows I purchase. Now I have my preferences on grip and style. I shot recurves most of my life and was always happy. Recently had a custom longbow made. I  will say it is a work of art and shoots well also. I am now trying ilf bows. I like the ability to change limbs if something's happens to them. Or you can change draw weight if wanted or needed. I typically shoot 55- 65 lb range bows am not young anymore so the production ilf bows are really starting to appeal to me. Can try different grips and limb weights without the expense of buying a complete new bow. And with ilf bows getting new limbs is easy. I really admire the custom bows they are works of art. I am a hunter and tend to be rough on equipment so a high end custom would just get beat up. As far as shooting I think all the bows out there will shoot better than I am capable of so I tend to buy bows that don't break the bank.

[jbpharmd]

I am fairly new to traditional archery. This is my 5th year. When searching for my first “real” bow after my Samick Sage, price and durability was the motivating factor. I looked at dozens of different manufacturers, both production and individual bowyers. Since my bow would be used for hunting it did not have to be pretty, just functional.

A custom bow made more sense to me because I had the choice of grip, length, draw weight, color, add-ons while still in the same price range of a basic production bow. I could not justify spending hundreds of more dollars on a bow to look pretty when it’s primarily meant to be drug through the swamps.

It’s just like having a beautiful wood grain over/under with gold inlays when a synthetic Remington 870 works just as good. Some people like that kind of thing but I would find it so hard to damage a work of art that some of the custom bows have become. All that to say: yes Randy a cheaper, production priced model with detachable limbs sounds like a winner. Less time for you to produce, less worry on the hunter about getting scratches/dings, and less damage to the customer’s pocketbook seems like it would lead to more sales.


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[Pointer]

When I owned many customs it was usually about getting exactly what I wanted in terms of the woods and glass used, the draw weight and length I wanted. I never really believed that the performance was all that different. I only have two custom bows left excluding the 2 I built from Bingham kits. Right now I'm shooting a Bear Montana more often than not and I'm really enjoying it.

Like most guys in the Gang...I have waaaaay too many bows lol. Eventually I'll get down to just a few..because I think when I can focus on just a couple I tend to shoot better and as a hunter that's the most important thing

[Roger Norris]

So what is "custom"?

I'm not being sarcastic....I have 32 bows hanging in my office. Shrews, Black Widows, Northern Mist's, Bears (my Bear bows are all from the 70's) Great Northern's, a few others that I'm not thinking of right now.

Some of those bows were already finished by the bowyer, I liked them, so I bought them. That sure as heck isn't custom. It might be unique, but it ain't custom.

Others, were made for me specifically. I ordered the grip I like, the veneers I like, and the bowyer made it to spec's he already has proven out. To me that's not custom. That's just picking out a few options. If thats custom, so is my pickup truck. 


My bow buying process goes like this:

I get bored with what I'm shooting

I start looking around

I shoot a few bows, and find a grip I like

I either buy something off the shelf or have a bowyer or bow company make one.




I have bought a true custom rifle. I collaborated with a gunsmith to create something "never been done before". But not a bow.

[Crittergetter]

Very interesting points....

Roger, for me personally the difference between a stock bow and a custom bow is the interaction between myself and a customer.
I am very one on one with each customer. I try to get in their head and see what they visualize. I want them to pick out every aspect of their bow. From the wood selections in the riser, or combos there of. (I’ll even do custom mosaics or flare shapes if one so desires). Veneers selections, overlays, grip preference, shelf cut, ect,ect....  I will make recommendations for combos if need be and I send pictures to almost every single client to help them pick out the look they want. I also send progress pics if someone wants that . A lot of people like to see the stages and watch their dream bow come together.
To me that’s the definition of a truly custom one of a kind bow.

I have yet to have a customer give me artistic freedom and build them a bow however I choose. That would actually be a little intimidating! Lol

[GCook]

Very interesting points....

Roger, for me personally the difference between a stock bow and a custom bow is the interaction between myself and a customer.
I am very one on one with each customer. I try to get in their head and see what they visualize. I want them to pick out every aspect of their bow. From the wood selections in the riser, or combos there of. (I’ll even do custom mosaics or flare shapes if one so desires). Veneers selections, overlays, grip preference, shelf cut, ect,ect....  I will make recommendations for combos if need be and I send pictures to almost every single client to help them pick out the look they want. I also send progress pics if someone wants that . A lot of people like to see the stages and watch their dream bow come together.
To me that’s the definition of a truly custom one of a kind bow.

I have yet to have a customer give me artistic freedom and build them a bow however I choose. That would actually be a little intimidating! Lol

Randy will work with you.  I think I drove him nearly insane with different woods and laminations.  In the end he did a basic bow with the camo dip I requested.  It was a good experience working with him on it. 
Now if I can just persuade him to build two piece recurves . . .

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[Roger Norris]

Very interesting points....

Roger, for me personally the difference between a stock bow and a custom bow is the interaction between myself and a customer.
I am very one on one with each customer. I try to get in their head and see what they visualize. I want them to pick out every aspect of their bow. From the wood selections in the riser, or combos there of. (I’ll even do custom mosaics or flare shapes if one so desires). Veneers selections, overlays, grip preference, shelf cut, ect,ect....  I will make recommendations for combos if need be and I send pictures to almost every single client to help them pick out the look they want. I also send progress pics if someone wants that . A lot of people like to see the stages and watch their dream bow come together.
To me that’s the definition of a truly custom one of a kind bow.

I have yet to have a customer give me artistic freedom and build them a bow however I choose. That would actually be a little intimidating! Lol

Randy will work with you.  I think I drove him nearly insane with different woods and laminations.  In the end he did a basic bow with the camo dip I requested.  It was a good experience working with him on it. 
Now if I can just persuade him to build two piece recurves . . .

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See I am the exact opposite. I couldn't care less about what the bowyer uses for core and lamination. I figure he's the pro, tell me. The bowyer that I have interacted the most with is Steve Turay. Our conversations go like this:

Me: Hey, I like that new Ramer, how long do you want to build it for my draw length?

Steve: Probably 66"

Me: Ok...make it dull enough and I won't spray paint it

Steve: Ok, I'll call you when it's ready.


Then however many months later....I get a box and an invoice.

Crittergetter, I think your "production" idea has merit. If I were buying one of your bows, that is where I would start.

All of that said....guys that love pretty wood, lamination's, inlays, whatever....I get it, and more power to you. It just isn't for me.

[nineworlds9]

Pretty much everything GDPolk said, we are like minded on this topic.

A few other things to add though.

Soul and functional art.  Production bows lack either.  I can kill and cover miles with a production bow, but a piece of handmade art is like a trusted friend and reflects the talent of the artist, their hunting ethos, the sacred nature of the kill, blah blah blah.  I'm an art aficionado and don't mind spending money on talent and a piece of functional artwork that will keep me inspired looking beautiful in my mancave on days I cant make into the field. 

Another interesting tidbit on top of what GDPolk mentioned-- nothing will make me put a newly delivered bow up for sale faster than if the workmanship and performance doesnt match the price I paid in my mind upon unboxing and initial tune and/or if the bowyers customer service or personality rub me the wrong way or I hear later that they treated a customer/patron poorly.  Now mind you Ive sold A LOT of bows, and 90%+ were more than up to snuff, I just love bows.  I just thought Id mention that.  We are lucky that nearly all of our bowyers in this community are super folks.

[bucknut]

9er I'm the same way with a bow or bowyer. If it don't fit it ships. If something a bowyer does pisses me off it ships. I know the only one losing out is me but I 'm hard headed and I don't want to help someone sell bows that I don't care for. Luckily I've only had one so far.

[Overspined]

I can’t imagine shooting a production bow. Custom are warmer, prettier, have mojo built in, are meticulously made and finished, and should perform extremely well. At least all the bowyers I’ve dealt with..and I put the same into mine..it should be special, it’s part of the tradition of traditional archery.

[Oscar-eleven]

I'd suggest making a couple of in stock bows with less expensive materials but not compromising performance and I'd bet you'll have a hard time keeping any stock bows around.

[JohnV]

A Volkswagon Beetle will get you from point A to point B but a Mercedes is sure a lot more fun to drive.

[David Mitchell]

Well, I have been around a long time, owned a truck load of bows (over 100 at last count)--many "customs" by some of the top makers over the years.  I have had the pretty wood, fancy this and that, and recently due to a need to drop some bow weight, I picked up a Galaxy Ember longbow from Lancaster and am happy as a dead pig in the sunshine.  It has the best grip, for me, of any custom I ever owned.  Didn't put a big dent in the budget, and bamboo cored limbs can be had for $89 a pair and they can be either recurve or longbow (or hybrid to be exact--I'm a bit fussy about what I call a "longbow").  That makes it hard to want to plunk down 4-5 times the money for something else that may not please me any better. I like colored glass a bunch these days and have bows with caramel, brown, black, green, and white glass,  as it brings back fond memories of older times.  I started shooting bows way back in 1955 with a lemonwood self longbow made by Indian Archery in Evansville, Indiana which my dad bought for me at Beard's Sporting Goods in Evansville.  I guess maybe I'm just coming around full circle to a place close to where I started when archery had such a special aura of excitement for me.  Plain works well for me now at less expense. 

[hvyhitter]

I have owned about 2 dozen longbows and recurves over the past 30 yrs and shot several dozen more. That said I have only 4 Ive kept as they just feel perfect when I shoot them. All are custom but only 2 were made for me and 2 picked up used. I could shoot most production bows well enough but just none were just right.  My last new custom was in 2007 and is my newest bow with nice cocobolo and at 65#. I still really like that bow. I did feel the urge in sept and ordered a new custom but this one will be a little plainer and a little lighter  at 55#. Both are 64" recurves and one piece production bows that long are hard to find. ………..YMMV

[Roger Norris]

I can’t imagine shooting a production bow. Custom are warmer, prettier, have mojo built in, are meticulously made and finished, and should perform extremely well. At least all the bowyers I’ve dealt with..and I put the same into mine..it should be special, it’s part of the tradition of traditional archery.

Fred Bear and Bear bows are part of the tradition of traditional archery, yes?

[David Mitchell]

I have owned a bunch of custom recurves....the only curves still on my rack all say Bear on them.  Bear bows have some of Fred's mojo in them. 

[Overspined]

I can’t imagine shooting a production bow. Custom are warmer, prettier, have mojo built in, are meticulously made and finished, and should perform extremely well. At least all the bowyers I’ve dealt with..and I put the same into mine..it should be special, it’s part of the tradition of traditional archery.

Fred Bear and Bear bows are part of the tradition of traditional archery, yes?

Yes, I guess by production I’m thinking more metal risers and more made by machines and non-bowyers. Bear bows require all the same nuances of custom, assuming they are built right. I am a bigger fan of the older bear bows, however these recent couple years they are looking really good in fit and finish...also I noticed they do have variances, but I think that’s cool because it shows they have some craftsperson working on them. Technically production I guess, but not in spirit. There were a number of Bear bows a few years back I saw that I would classify as production, terrible finish and detail work. Seems like this has changed. It’s best made by a bowyer in my opinion.

[Overspined]

Maybe I’m crazy but when I have fellow craftsmen build me anything I use, especially for hunting, I get attached to the sentiment, relationship, pride, etc in using it.  The art, craftsmanship, talent, experience, knowledge, you get this from custom. Whether you ordered every aspect or bought a stock “custom”.  I have bows from many bowyers, my own creations, clothing fellow craftsmen made, knives, etc and I guess I get a warm friendly feeling when I use them. It’s like mojo, a connection, whatever you want to call it. I shot a giant buck one year and on the way to cabin I remember calling a steve Turay to tell him what I did with one of his bows, he was my first call, and I felt excited as a kid at Christmas. I’ve killed a ton of deer, but still I love relaying the success with the creators. My first two deer of my life were with a Great Northern bow 30 years ago and it changed my life, so I love telling the guys of that..it’s not easy to put into words the why behind custom, but I know I’m all in.

[GCook]

Well put Over.  I sent Randy a message with each kill the last few weeks.  I've only met him once a couple years ago and even though I bought the bow I feel like I've gotten a special gift in it.  My first custom but who know what's in the future . . .

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