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Author Topic: Concern for direction of hunting  (Read 18732 times)

Offline Cory Mattson

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2019, 12:07:09 PM »
Taking a deer, bear, hog, turkey,, alligator is still a great accomplishment in our camps. We use the same methods now we used in 1975 - not much has changed and the basic bow and arrow is the same. Had to think things through along the way obviously. Don't like seeing bait lumped in with technology creep. I know some of you think it is cheating but we don't see it as any different than hunting a farm. I have fond memories of hunting NY in the 70s and 80s.
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Offline David Mitchell

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2019, 12:12:07 PM »
I guess "bashing" is in the eye of the beholder.  I didn't see the OP bashing at all. 
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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2019, 12:24:30 PM »
"" For the young who have fully accepted it and immersed themselves in it, it has opened new doors for employment opportunities and other experiences that we older folks will never have,""

 Actually every generation can say that, with the computer revolution, with the industrial revolution, etc, etc, etc....

 But I think what the original poster is saying is simply this.....

Hunting with your brain and honing your skills is being replaced  by electronics and mechanics.



Yep... :wavey:
Thanks Terry for that simplification...

Offline Mark R

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2019, 12:32:10 PM »
Bowguy67 I think I understand your opinion, after all this is a TRADITIONAL BOWHUNTING site, and I don't see you bashing anyone. I agree with Terry. Okkeith I hunt naked and use a rock and stick to kill my supper and I like it, yall put that in your pipe and smoke it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 12:42:24 PM by Mark R »

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2019, 12:45:41 PM »
I also don't think, as some are implying, that he is talking about better bow, arrow, string, or head materials.  He can correct me if I'm wrong,  but he's not eluding to traditional  bowhunting equipment....

But to gadgets outside the realm that are eroding our Woodsmanship.
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Offline SAM E. STEPHENS

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2019, 12:48:24 PM »
I’m 47 years old and have had a bow in my hand from the time I could walk...

I have hunted many critters large and small and spent many years at studying everything involving archery hunting....

I have built self bows and chipped arrowheads and take large and small game with them..

My bow of choice is a longbow , D-bow , RD , self , ILF - depends on the day..

I also shoot wood , carbon , sometimes aluminum...

I have also hunted many years with no Camo.. but will and still do wear camouflage...

I have killed many animals with both stalking, still hunting, ambushes, waterholes, natural food sources, pushes ....

I have also killed many over bait that I have put out...

I have spent many many days in the mountains living off my back and hunting , my mountain hunts are usually 30 days a year...

I also use trail cameras, treestands , ground blinds , and binoculars...

Anyway I can rattle on , many know me here and know my history...

So I believe I can do what it takes in a variety of situations so I just need a list of what I can and can’t do when I’m hunting..

I just need the set ways of what bow and method so I can be great also and not the slob currently I am ...

So if someone would please post up what I can and can’t do please do , Thanks...

,,Sam,,
HUNT OLD SCHOOL

Offline TIM B

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2019, 12:50:57 PM »
Well I'll say this....I can tell bowseason is over lol
Tim B

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2019, 01:10:57 PM »
Yeah technology is creeping in.  Used to take weeks for a letter to get to one person or family.  Now a few keys strokes can reach the world in second, bad, bad, bad....
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Offline 23feetupandhappy

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2019, 01:18:22 PM »
Well I'll say this....I can tell bowseason is over lol
Tim B

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Offline bihunter

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2019, 01:27:35 PM »
For me pre-season scouting on foot is part of the hunt & also fun. Better exercise than monitoring trail cameras on the computer. Sharpening broadheads & knives is not rocket science. But, my question has been, what is the difference between a bucket of apples compared with an apple orchard or a 4 acre food plot. The only difference I see is that food plots are not natural. I would like to point out that I don't think the bucket of apples is right. Another point is that I shoot traditional bows for the challenge & the fun that they are.  :archer2:

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2019, 01:46:41 PM »
Sam....his post doesn't apply to everyone, and I certainly don't think it applies to you.
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Offline Cyclic-Rivers

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2019, 02:02:58 PM »
I think we are all I'm different places in our hunting journey. Some people stick with what works, others experiment and grow as hunters. Some if all do not know where their journey is taking them. Some stick to the well traveled path, while others look for other ways. Some look to pioneers for guidance while others buy their guidance from the outhouse channel.

All I can say is be a mentor and friend to other hunters. Some may need direction even if they don't know it. Lead by example and stand up for what's right. Don't be so quick to judge, you may learn something and you may have the ability to teach.
Relax,

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Offline SAM E. STEPHENS

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2019, 02:12:53 PM »
I agree with technology is taking the skills from everything we do in every aspect of life...

My post above is an honest question for people here where is the line in the sand for being a ( True Archery Hunter ) ...

Or is that a question for each individual to decide....

I know for a fact many of our forefathers used guides on hunts and also baited animals. Some also used poison on arrows and most would take very very long shots at animals. And also would not think twice about running shots , or running animals with dogs .. And I know they also hunted from trees and blinds and used camouflage..

So my questions still stand what exactly does a guy have to do ?????

I really need my patch...

,,Sam,,
HUNT OLD SCHOOL

Offline SAM E. STEPHENS

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2019, 02:15:10 PM »
Charlie just said it right ...

,,Sam,,,
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Offline KeganM

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2019, 02:16:59 PM »
As a "youngster" in the traditional community (27 y.o.), raising a youngster myself, perhaps I can offer a different perspective:

These days it seems kids are raised differently and hunters are treated differently.

My dad wasn't much of a hunter. He did some gun hunting before I can remember. When I started hunting with an interest in bowhunting I got the old "I don't want all my deer running around with arrows sticking out of them" comments from day one. He spent most of his time working himself ragged and then trying to rest on weekends, which didn't leave much time to hunt. For many of my friends, that was the same for their fathers. There was almost no mentoring in woodsmanship. Making money took priority, and no matter how much everyone seemed to make there were always more bills to pay. Add in primarily female teaching staff at the school with similar Disney outlooks on animals, and there was never much guidance in how to be a natural predator. They made sure we learned the Pythagorean theorem, though... which I have forgotten. Nine hours at a desk being told to sit down, shut up, and fill out paperwork to make it in this world followed by another two to five hours doing homework at night didn't leave much time to hunt, and most of my free time was spent just trying to build a selfbow and wooden arrows that worked so I COULD hunt.

I tried to "guarantee" success by shooting extremely heavy selfbows and arrows and doing so in the manner of the most successful traditional bowhunters I'd read about (Hill, Asbell, etc.). The difference was, those legends had devoted years to mastering their styles and methods and I was just a scrawny, uncoordinated, near-sighted high school kid trying to shoot a moderately sized whitetail under some oak trees. There were no mentors. I didn't have the money for a compound, and crossbows weren't legal, so I just kept trudging along hoping, more than anything, to get a chance at an animal where I DIDN'T WOUND IT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD. No one hunted with traditional bows in the area and I certainly didn't want to be the lunatic sticking them in the rear ends with feathered arrows. That recipe for anxiety took its toll on my hunting for years.

It took six years before I connected on a deer, and even then it didn't go perfectly (liver hit) which lead to a lot of self-admonishment over whether I should even be hunting at all. That was in addition to the numerous negative comments about my pursuits from family and friends. At the moment I've taken around a dozen whitetail with stickbows. Some out of stands, some on the ground, however outside of the traditional bowhunting community and a few close friends those accomplishments aren't always treated as such. I still have family turn their noses up whenever hunting is even mentioned, and there are still comments from the older compound bowhunting crowd that make me feel like I'm just "getting in the way of real hunters" because I don't use more modern weapons. Doesn't just come from those using compounds. I've had traditional folks comment that my current hunting bows are of barely adequate poundage, that the deer I shoot are too small, or that my aiming style is for paper, not fur. Even when I try to make the right choices for myself and the game I pursue, someone has to chime in with what's wrong with it and why I'm still wrong.

It's not hard to see why there are so few youngsters taking up traditional bowhunting now. There's no room anymore for mistakes or learning. Now it seems like you have to step into this as a successful super-hunter or otherwise you're just a murderous goon or an ignorant wounder-to-be. There are bills to pay, too, and time is more valuable than ever. Sitting in the woods with a low-probability weapon, where even if your skill and determination pay off with a kill you'll be ridiculed and mocked by hunters and non-hunters alike... well, it doesn't always feel worth it for some meat in the freezer.

While the desire to earn my meat through self-discipline and determination runs deep, I don't push my stepson into hunting for these reasons. I talk to him about it and try to teach him what woodsmanship I know, but hunting can make you a target for hate-fueled attacks by others, even those supposedly on your side. The level of ridicule and the types of bile spewed at hunters anymore, even from other hunters, is overwhelming at times. I've made it clear to him that I'd support him with whatever weapon he wanted to use, if he wants to hunt at all, because of the pushback I'd received when I started hunting with a longbow. He gets plenty of the Disney nonsense from school and other family members, though, so I don't know if he'll even hunt. I'm just here to help him with a traditional hunting bow if he wants to pursue that path.

Offline TradBrewSC

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2019, 02:24:53 PM »
Bowguy - If you watch hunting shows and keep up with the industry news, you'd certainly think hunting's going down the crapper.

But what you may not see is a huge resurgence in traditional archery happening right now. Aron Snyder, for one is bringing loads of young guys from Compound to trad with his podcast (Kifaru Cast), videos, gear.

Tomorrow Donnie Vincent is coming on my podcast to talk about his recent transition into Trad. If you aren't familiar, google the guy. His films are outstanding. I know him personally and he's the real deal.

There is a scene that is happening that you may not be plugged into. The Push Archery and Tom Clum's instructional videos are teaching thousands of men/women how to shoot a trad bow well. As for interest and new blood into the sport, things are maybe better than ever in some ways!

Your perspective is pretty narrow in my opinion. Sure the easy way is very attractive to your approach hunters and I for one loath seeing the crossbow accepted as a "bow" that's legal for archery season. But progress and culture never sit still. If we expected especially young men/women to want to do it the "hard way" we'd watch a swift and fatal decline of hunting.

I'd say be a little warmer with your approach and encourage these guys to explore the hard way. Telling them they haven't earned their archery badge is just rude and shaming. I personally wouldn't give you the time of day if you started judging me the first time I met you.
I'm mentoring a compound guy rite now. I expect he'll switch to trad once he learns how to actually find deer and gets some kills under his belt. If not and he wants to run a wheelie bow his whole life - fine by me. Live and let live, I say.

I could not agree more!

The influencers you suggested are game changers in the traditional community and are helping our sport to grow exponentially. These types of avenues are key to the growth of our sport. These types of people are the mentors of our youth now, not just a father, uncle etc. anymore!

We live a much different time from those that grew up hunting in the "pre internet" period. People no longer rely on the what they learn from their personal mentors. Its just a way of life. There is a far, I mean FAR, greater population of hunters than there were 20 years ago, and you can not expect them all to take the time to hunt, or become the woodsman that those in the past did. In such a fast paced world, many are taking their hunting approach the same way. But there is also a growing number of people that are stepping back and wanting a challenge, and wanting to be a better hunter, and you just have to be there to help them when they decide to do so.


Online Warchild

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2019, 03:10:19 PM »
Terry Green, I am the one that had the post deleted. It contained the exact same words that many more have now expressed without prejudice. I appreciate your thoughts on my post though and will use this as another example of how a post that someone doesn't agree with is deleted. It wasn't the first in my many years of expressing opinions on this site. It got bad enough at one point that I am on my second handle and identity. It seems some can express the identical opinions and quotes without hassle. I'm used to the double standard by now and again list this as one of our issues, censorship of views by certain individuals. There are literally unintended quotes from my post on here that are still up...… oh well such is life in the big city, again why I don't bother posting on this site much anymore...Ill stick to the classifieds if my money as a contributing member is still good enough.

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2019, 03:32:52 PM »
Thanks Warchild....I assure you I didn't delete your post...like I said, I was trying to respond....sorry it was pulled as there was a lot of validity in your words.

Et All...

I will say this about baiting....I didn't grow up hunting deer over bait piles or feeders.  I have hunted that way, mostly TX, and it was a blast.

However, if the truth hurts I can't help it....If I grew up hunting over bait piles and feeders I wouldn't have the knowledge of how to hunt otherwise.  I wouldn't have a clue how to put the puzzle together....and putting the puzzle together is a Grand Prize in itself.
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Offline nineworlds9

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2019, 03:53:37 PM »
Are hunting and democratic socialism compatible? That is the real question going into the 2020s.   :dunno:   The technology thing scares me less than what kids are being taught about how they fit into this world and what happens at the polls.  I'm 37 soon with two little ones and I will fight to ensure they can hunt someday and not live in some banana republic abomination.
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Online Wudstix

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Re: Concern for direction of hunting
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2019, 03:58:08 PM »
I can see the time is precious angle.  Living in the seventh largest city in the US and hunting Federal land, which restricts hunting time to Friday-Saturday-Sunday, only.  Unless the area is closed for Military training.  Thursday's for scouting not hunting.  This shrinks your time in the field greatly.  Feeders are used and other attractants to make your spot more interesting than the guys 600 yards away, potentially on Trail cameras reveal that much activity is Monday thru Wednesday.  Deer are not stupid, they soon figure out the couple days a week to avoid the feeder.  Hearing about fellas hunting like I used to in PA and IN, is fun, but frustrating.  Sure I could get a lease to hunt I wanted a few 100 miles away.  For several thousand dollars for the hunting season.  But that is not possible.  So, I hunt were I am with the rules here and do te best I can.  This year I did not get drawn to hunt government land so have not been in the woods at all.  Hunting has become a rich man's game in many parts.  Hope to make a trip to a WMA and get a few days of hog chasing done.  Longbow and wood arrows in hand.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 04:07:42 PM by Wudstix »
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