Concern for direction of hunting

[Bowguy67]

Years ago it was a great accomplishment to kill a deer with a bow. Heck it was a great accomplishment period it seemed.
We’d drive around to show friends, we were high for a week. Nowadays imo many just don’t get it.
Instead of learning the sport and becoming knowledgeable of an animal/animals habits many take an easier way out.
Days of long range scouting w binoculars or on foot are replaced by trail cams, days of finding a preferred food source during a certain time of year are now replaced by carrying a bucket of bait in.
Preseason I can remember sharpening blades as almost a religion. Now many say “they just can’t do it”. Nonsense.
The idea is a dead deer to be sure. On here we prob have some older school mentality but what about our youth?
Years back a fellow n I were discussing such things helping park cars at a 3D shoot.
A fellow assisting commented we were gonna hate him. He dropped his tailgate to reveal a ladder stand, camera n bags of corn.
I informed him there was no hate but had he ever killed a deer with no bait? He said no. I told him w no disrespect he hadn’t event earned his hypethetical bowhunter patch yet.
If I invited him to a place w no bait allowed in NY what would he look for? Where would he set up?
His wide eyed stare and open mouth showed he didn’t know.  I gave him suggestions to help but as of now a whole generation has grown up baiting, using crossguns, cameras, presharpened broadheads and disposable blade knives.
If ever any of this was outlawed (especially bait) my fear is a bunch of guys would eventually leave n who’s left to fight for our sport? Who’s left to pass anything down? Who would even know how?
I know the same weak excuses I always hear will be thrown out in defense of this nonsense. That’s not my point so no need to even say them.  I didn’t grow up this way, many others didn’t either and we succeeded.
Help the next generation at least have an understanding, mentor a kid to the old ways and pass it down.
Its only a small step in turning this around and it may be too late but I know I’ll always try. Hope others do too.

[hawkeye n pa]

I don't think you can expect a kid to appreciate the good ole days, hunting or not.    Different area's have totally different regulations for hunting and who I'm I to say they had no ethics? or cheated?  Hunting is quickly  becoming a rich man's sport, and IMHO that is not good for the future.     

[Bisch]

Yep! Your way or the highway!!!!

There’s nothing wrong with folks doing things different ways. And just because someone does something different then the way you do, doesn’t make it wrong!

I am one of the guys who can’t sharpen a head by hand. It’s not nonsense that somebody else is not able to do something we’ll just because you can!!!!

Have a great day bashing others because they don’t do it your way!!!! 

SMDH!!!!!

Bisch


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[Macatawa]

As I read..and re-read the OP's post i see that he is merely remembering the dynamic of the hunt as "it was" and commenting on the present day approach to hunting.  I remember those days when ya had to scout out the national forests in Northern Michigan...and by law ya had to hunt on the ground and baiting was not allowed.   It was truly more difficult to score back then but (for me) I found a greater satisfaction in remembering what it took to get that shot.

These days are different...not worse or better...but different and I can appreciate all forms of the legal kill.   Times have changed and will continue to do so and our sucessors will undoubtedly follow suit.   That's the way it is.   

[Terry Green]

I was going to reply to someone's post... but it looks like a mod deleted it....and I'm not sure why.

 Whoever posted it I'm really sorry it got deleted.  I know you put a lot of time into typing that.

[supernaut]

     I'm 46 years old and have been bow hunting for 34 years since I was 12 years old. 33 of those years I used a compound, I switched to a "traditional" recurve last year. I had gotten to the point that hunting with my compound wasn't as rewarding anymore for me personally. My neighbor Jason (Wojo14 on here) invited me to shoot some of his "traditional" bows and I was hooked. I truly love it and only regret that I hadn't made the switch sooner.

     I think it is human nature to pine for days gone by or how things used to be. Hunting with a stick and a string satisfies those urges for I assume everyone that does it.

     One of the great things about hunting is you get to do it YOUR way as long as it's legal. I hunt how I hunt and YOU hunt how you hunt and that is the way it should be.

     I worry as well that some of the things I Love about hunting will be lost on future generations but we as hunters are the only people that can remedy that. My son is 12 and he wants to hunt with a recurve when he gets big enough to pull back a legal weight. That makes me happy but I realize if I hadn't have gotten involved in "traditional" archery he'd probably be picking up a compound because that is what Dad is doing.

     There are probably a lot more guys like I was than we realize, guys that would love to shoot and hunt with a traditional bow. They just might not have had the opportunity to try it yet. Be proactive, ask that compound guy at the next 3D shoot if he'd like to shoot your bow. Heck, ask a crossgun guy if he'd like to shoot your bow. You never know, get one person interested and they get someone else interested and so on. Just some thoughts of a "newbie".

[David Mitchell]

I agree with the OP about learning the "trade" of bowhunting and not following blindly the "heros" of TV hunts who talk about "smokin" that deer and high fiving like they haven't been there before and showing little respect for the animal whose life they just extinguished. To bash the original poster for "bashing" others smacks of the same mentality as I see it.  We all feel that our way is the best way or the only way and we need to be careful about that attitude, but it works both ways I think.  I have no animus toward those who choose to pursue legal means of hunting if they differ from my own approach, but I do feel that something of value is being lost in the lack of woodsmanship often seen today and the way to success is seen as buying the right stuff.

[BAK]

For me traditional "hunting" is doing it the old way, without all the electronic gadgets, etc.  I would say from what I've read and EMP burst would pretty much finish it for 90% of the hunters on here.  That doesn't make them bad hunters, just guys who have never learned how to read a map, use a compass, or survive without checking their smart phone every half hour.  Actually, I feel sorry for them.  And yes I say that from my keyboard, but I'm not out in the woods with it either.

What's worse is how their kids and grand kids will view hunting and the outdoors.  I actually heard of a woman complaining to a forest ranger that a trail in a national wilderness  was not handicapped accessible.  The whole thing seems like a very steep slippery slope.

[Sam McMichael]

I have mixed feelings about what you have written. I certainly feel that many today would not be successful (in whichever manner they measure success) without many technological enhancements, the use of bait, etc. Yet, it is legal, and more importantly, it is their choice. I don't care to use these things, and I do not personally approve of them. Yet, as I said, others like them and have the right to use them. I guess more of us old timers prefer the older ways and genuinely miss them, but despite all the gloom and doom, even with the misgivings of today's practices, the sun still rose in the east the same as it did all those years ago. I will oppose the passage of legislation that I disagree with, but once it is passed, I won't defame those who use new regs to their benefit. Even though my sentiment lies in the past, I still live in the present, and I accept the present. No, I won't rush out and buy a compound, a crossbow, or start baiting deer, because that's not the personal choice I make. Nor will I preach against those who don't see things the way I do. As long as it is legal, to each his own. But yes, I am conflicted on this.

[McDave]

The radical changes in technology in the last 20 years have changed many things, moreso for the young than for those of us who grew up in the pre-technology age and prefer it that way.  After all, it's still possible to accept or reject technology, for the most part (thank God).  For the young who have fully accepted it and immersed themselves in it, it has opened new doors for employment opportunities and other experiences that we older folks will never have, and probably won't miss.  I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few years, after we have all died off, there isn’t a resurgence of interest in understanding how to live outdoors without the aid of technology.  People who are interested in this trend will dig up all the old articles and books to figure out how we did it, and there will be trendy seminars and books by the new self-proclaimed experts in how to understand animals and how to move about the earth with only a map and compass.

[gregg dudley]

Few pursuits suffer as much from provincialism as hunting does.

[Bowguy67]

Guys to be clear I was bashing no one.
Seems some of the guys understand.

[Bowguy67]

The radical changes in technology in the last 20 years have changed many things, moreso for the young than for those of us who grew up in the pre-technology age and prefer it that way.  After all, it's still possible to accept or reject technology, for the most part (thank God).  For the young who have fully accepted it and immersed themselves in it, it has opened new doors for employment opportunities and other experiences that we older folks will never have, and probably won't miss.  I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few years, after we have all died off, there isn’t a resurgence of interest in understanding how to live outdoors without the aid of technology.  People who are interested in this trend will dig up all the old articles and books to figure out how we did it, and there will be trendy seminars and books by the new self-proclaimed experts in how to understand animals and how to move about the earth with only a map and compass.

Funny you say that, I’ve thought the exact same thing

[Wudstix]

As I read..and re-read the OP's post i see that he is merely remembering the dynamic of the hunt as "it was" and commenting on the present day approach to hunting.  I remember those days when ya had to scout out the national forests in Northern Michigan...and by law ya had to hunt on the ground and baiting was not allowed.   It was truly more difficult to score back then but (for me) I found a greater satisfaction in remembering what it took to get that shot.

These days are different...not worse or better...but different and I can appreciate all forms of the legal kill.   Times have changed and will continue to do so and our sucessors will undoubtedly follow suit.   That's the way it is.   

I have to lean your way.  When I was growing up, (pre-compound bows) there was allot of effort put into scouting and picking just the right spot.  Learning the escape routing used when the big hunting gangs started their drives across the mountain during gun season when we still had bows in our hands.  Knife sharpening was passed down from father to son, or grandfather to grandson.  Woods craft as well.  Life goes on, technology advances, its not bad just not the same.  Man will always look for a faster, easier way.  Imagine the man who came up with the first bow, the spear guys were probably upset!!!

[tcw]

Bowguy - If you watch hunting shows and keep up with the industry news, you'd certainly think hunting's going down the crapper.

But what you may not see is a huge resurgence in traditional archery happening right now. Aron Snyder, for one is bringing loads of young guys from Compound to trad with his podcast (Kifaru Cast), videos, gear.

Tomorrow Donnie Vincent is coming on my podcast to talk about his recent transition into Trad. If you aren't familiar, google the guy. His films are outstanding. I know him personally and he's the real deal.

There is a scene that is happening that you may not be plugged into. The Push Archery and Tom Clum's instructional videos are teaching thousands of men/women how to shoot a trad bow well. As for interest and new blood into the sport, things are maybe better than ever in some ways!

Your perspective is pretty narrow in my opinion. Sure the easy way is very attractive to your approach hunters and I for one loath seeing the crossbow accepted as a "bow" that's legal for archery season. But progress and culture never sit still. If we expected especially young men/women to want to do it the "hard way" we'd watch a swift and fatal decline of hunting.

I'd say be a little warmer with your approach and encourage these guys to explore the hard way. Telling them they haven't earned their archery badge is just rude and shaming. I personally wouldn't give you the time of day if you started judging me the first time I met you.
I'm mentoring a compound guy rite now. I expect he'll switch to trad once he learns how to actually find deer and gets some kills under his belt. If not and he wants to run a wheelie bow his whole life - fine by me. Live and let live, I say.

[Wudstix]

My younger brother just let me know in a text that he is moving to a crossbow.  Initially, I was a bit shocked, I got him his first recurve, than in the last several years he has moved to compound.  Now due to two rotary cuff surgeries he is finding it difficult to draw a bow.  I understand that he still wants to experience the hunt, so that is what he choses to do.  Thank God, I have remained healthy enough to continue shooting my 67-71# longbows.  Life moves on.

[Orion]

Agree with you 100% Bowguy and likewise BAK. Regardless of the activity, we get out of it what we put into it.  What I find ironic is that many of the folks who purport to choose to hunt with traditional equipment because of the greater challenge it offers also employ every gadget and practice in the book to make the hunt easier. Just doesn't compute for this old guy.  Seems that substituting technology and baiting/feeding for learned experience and knowledge would lessen the  sense of satisfaction and accomplishment.

On the other hand, each generation tends to think that it's always been as witnessed in their time.  Few have a good sense of or interest in history.  So if they've never known anything else, current practices and technology are normal, and I suppose they have become so.  Be that as it may, I find it a loss.  The remnants of the way it was will likely die with my generation.  Just an old guy's lament.     

[Bowguy67]

Bowguy - If you watch hunting shows and keep up with the industry news, you'd certainly think hunting's going down the crapper.

But what you may not see is a huge resurgence in traditional archery happening right now. Aron Snyder, for one is bringing loads of young guys from Compound to trad with his podcast (Kifaru Cast), videos, gear.

Tomorrow Donnie Vincent is coming on my podcast to talk about his recent transition into Trad. If you aren't familiar, google the guy. His films are outstanding. I know him personally and he's the real deal.

There is a scene that is happening that you may not be plugged into. The Push Archery and Tom Clum's instructional videos are teaching thousands of men/women how to shoot a trad bow well. As for interest and new blood into the sport, things are maybe better than ever in some ways!

Your perspective is pretty narrow in my opinion. Sure the easy way is very attractive to your approach hunters and I for one loath seeing the crossbow accepted as a "bow" that's legal for archery season. But progress and culture never sit still. If we expected especially young men/women to want to do it the "hard way" we'd watch a swift and fatal decline of hunting.

I'd say be a little warmer with your approach and encourage these guys to explore the hard way. Telling them they haven't earned their archery badge is just rude and shaming. I personally wouldn't give you the time of day if you started judging me the first time I met you.
I'm mentoring a compound guy rite now. I expect he'll switch to trad once he learns how to actually find deer and gets some kills under his belt. If not and he wants to run a wheelie bow his whole life - fine by me. Live and let live, I say.

Buddy I’m sorry I don’t watch hunting shows or listen to podcasts. I don’t even know how and until a week or so ago didn’t even know what they were.
Far as the way I speak there’s no voice inflection nor tone of voice on here. Sure many who feel your way may have been taken incorrectly say texting. Same thing.
Plenty of people that talk to me one on one can testify to my talking straight but being considerate.
That wasn’t the point though. It was passing it down so it’s not lost and maybe some reminiscing
You actually don’t need to do any of this if you don’t wish and I’m not trying to force anyone
If someone is looking at things negatively they can interpret words as such.
Far as the compound guy, did I even mention that??  I teach all disciplines including compounds w releases. The only place I draw a line is crossgun. I just have no interest.
Far as you not giving me the time of day, I’m sorry again but if you’re overly sensitive I really wouldn’t care.,
The archery patch thing was only to help him understand.
It wasn’t said belittling in the least. The man was helping us and I was trying to help him, remember we had a back n forth conversation w nothing Ill felt nor anything disrespectful said or inferred. If he liked his way that was ok too but my point is and was to him what would he look for and where would he sit? He had no idea.
That’s a shame. Was he a bowhunter or a deer shooter?
Are slaughter permit guys deer hunters? How bout guys in a fence? There are lines and I’m not saying they are all the same but they all kill deer. So I’ll ask again are they hunters?
Take the words I’ve said any way you wish. Read them matter of factly and as non pointed if you want to understand.

[Terry Green]

"" For the young who have fully accepted it and immersed themselves in it, it has opened new doors for employment opportunities and other experiences that we older folks will never have,""

 Actually every generation can say that, with the computer revolution, with the industrial revolution, etc, etc, etc....

 But I think what the original poster is saying is simply this.....

Hunting with your brain and honing your skills is being replaced  by electronics and mechanics.

[GCook]

Guys to be clear I was bashing no one.
Seems some of the guys understand.

Maybe not intentionally but you were.  You aren't making these comments inside a group of close family or friends whom all identities 100% with you.  This is a forum that reaches international hunters who share a minimum of one thing with you.  They use a bow with a single string.
Most of us live in an urban environment.  Our time afield is limited as is our children's.   I grew up in a wilderness area and learned to fish, trap and hunt early in life but ended up 1700 miles from home living in a city to have a good job to support a family.  My son did not get the opportunity to grow up in the wild like I did.  The few weekends a year one gets to drive a couple of hundred miles to the lease need to be used productively.   
Every comment we post negative about the way someone else does things is a personal attack on them. Calling crossbows crossguns is a cheapshot.  Telling someone they aren't a real bowhunter because they choose a compound is a cheapshot.
We choose this discipline for ourselves for various reasons but hopefully arrogance and spite aren't among them.
I don't find the TV hunters way appealing but I control the remote so . . .
Woodsmanship seems to be losing ground but it's up to us to teach younger folk the ways.
I promise you though that ridiculing their chosen method or insulting their intelligence with comments such as some will not help their ability to listen to or respect all the good things you could teach them.

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