Concern for direction of hunting

[Holm-Made]

If you look at how much bowhunting has “progressed” in the last 30-40 years you can assume it will “advance” at the same rate the next 30-40 years.  It absolutely, positively will advance at the same rate until we do not recognize bowhunting unless a conscious effort is made to stop it or at least slow it down.

That is why I do not have a problem with people standing up to say enough is enough.  We have to make the conscious effort to just say no or my 15 year old son will be in trouble when he is my age. 

[LC]

Sam, absolutely no problem or offense taken. I'll bet we would get along just fine sitting around a camp fire eating some bluegill and back strap after a hard day hunting.

Holm Made I hear you. I don't get any magazines or I mean I don't pay someone to send me advertisements anymore. But occasionally I'll read one or excerpts from them on the net. The high tech world of bowhunting is realizing they've maxed out what performance they can expect in the future. I believe the next thrust will be air powered guns that shoot arrows. There was a push to have it legalized in VA for handicapped but not sure if became legal or not. I'm not sure where the craziness will stop in this world and I'm not just talking about hunting and fishing.

The only TV hunting show I'll watch is Randy Newburg Fresh Tracks on YouTube or Amazon prime. That guy gets it! I use to really like Meat Eater but he seems to have jumped on the commercialization band wagon to much for my blood lately.

 

[BAK]

The other influence that is helping drive this movement is the state DNR's.  They are all nothing more than corporate government entities that view growth as the only way forward.  If they feel technology is the way to sell more licenses than that's what is going to be allowed. 

[YosemiteSam]

Too often, I easily fall for the vice of self-righteousness.  I try to keep it in check by not taking myself too seriously.

I love the idea that primitive activities, like hunting, should only be done by primitive methods, like traditional archery.  But I have to be realistic about things.  The CA Indians were known for wearing deer costumes to get close enough for a shot at our deer.  Seems like a winning strategy but also one that can get you killed nowadays.  Can't go back in time so we have to modify things a bit.

Most hunters out here have less than 10% odds of connecting with a buck.  Our DFW wants to increase the number of hunters afield to boost declining revenues but also sets the regs & seasons to severely limit what we can take.  It's a schizophrenic approach -- we need more hunters but we need them to shoot less deer.  So everybody looks for an edge -- new tech that hasn't been banned yet, private land access, etc.  Many deer are poached out of sheer frustration.  It's an odd situation out here.  I hope my kids take up hunting as adults but I'll understand if they don't.  It's tough.  Real tough.  Considering that I didn't even get my first deer until my early 30s, I don't know why I hunted at all as a kid.  A smarter kid would have given up after the first 2 or 3 unsuccessful seasons.

I hunted over corn scattered on a dirt road once -- out of state.  Got my first deer & it inspired me to take up hunting again when I got home.  As long as there are enough deer, I don't see how it's any different from trapping.  Call it trapping with a bow or rifle.  Out here, I'd consider it cheating.  But that's only because there aren't as many deer around.

Personally, I get upset about guys sitting up on distant ridges with their expensive glass, laser rangefinders and tripod-mounted 300 WinMags looking for 400+ yard shots.  To me, that's shooting, not hunting.  But it's legal.  A guy sitting over a bucket of corn within stick-bow range is using more hunting skill than those long-range shooters.  At least the bait guy is operating within the senses of the animal.  But alas, even feeding wildlife out of season is illegal here.  Crazy rules.

Kegan -- I relate to your experiences.  I've had similar ones.

I've met guys in CA who dabble in traditional archery hunting but NONE who hunt the general deer season with a stick bow.  They all have different reasons.  But when the general season opens, you'll find all of them with a rifle.  Most all will shoot the first legal buck they see.  When a good hunter (one that is better than me) only gets one shot opportunity ever few years, you really think hard about how much you want to hold to some vague ideals.

[BAK]

I love your comment about the rifle hunters.  There are ads run in hunting magazines challenging rifle hunters to join the "1000 yard club",  using the right combination of rifle, cartridge, and scope.  I myself have taken coyotes at over 600 yards.  That is not hunting.  It's pretty fair shooting, but not hunting.

The future of sport hunting cannot remain "fair chase" and continue to expand technologically.  It is obviously not just bow hunting that is in jeopardy.   

[Terry Green]

Looks like all my comments are falling on deaf ears. They're all pretty simple and factual. The orgional poster had nothing to say about legal or illegal yet that's being touted about.....or maybe some kind of justification?...I don't know.

 And I've had tons of fun, entertainment, and and blood trails sitting over a feeder.... And I'm sure I'll do it again many times......

But I never gained any woodsmanship. I'm not going to kid myself or anyone else.

 What bothers me is a generation that only knows hunting over a pile of corn.... And would not be able to hunt otherwise.   No, skills weren't lost, they were never learned.....and never passed down.

THIS is what I think most are afraid of....and for good reason.... To date it has never been threatened like it is being today..... And I'm not just talking about traditional bowhunting ....but all hunting.


Anyone ever hear of the Conch Island Sea Gulls?

[OkKeith]

I hear the words of everyone who is worried about loosing "traditional hunting values", which is what I think we are all talking about.

As time passes on, what will change is the DEFINITION of traditional hunting values; BUT as long as there is even just one of us out there taking the road less traveled or doing things simply these values are alive.

What if an archer is hunting with a 30 year old compound? Most of us use "traditional" bows MUCH newer than that. If that person continues to use that bow for another 30 years what might that new age of archers think of them? They would be "traditional" in their futuristic eyes I'm sure.

No one likes to see their heart felt values altered by society. Think though... are our commonly held belief systems truly "traditional"? It wasn't that long ago (one generation, maybe two) that long archery shots at game were not just common place but promoted by the very icons we cherish now. Fred Bear himself once thought that a ham shot was one of the most effective placements on deer size game animals. Does anyone make these shots on purpose today? His famous shot on the tiger in India was well over double what we would chastise any hunter on this forum for admitting to. In several interviews Mr. Bear admits that he wasn't even aiming to hit the tiger, he was just launching a shot in hopes of scaring it closer. Fred Bear was an amazing archer and is one of the pillars of our bow hunting foundation but lets not forget he was as equally a marketing master and business genius.

I don't think we need to lament the loss of our traditional hunting values so much as we need to quietly keep keeping on. I follow policy and rule making pretty close and I don't see any efforts to make us use equipment or methods we don't really want to. There is no "Make Everyone a Compound Shooter" legislation. Entwining our love of things "traditional" with the overall effort of promoting our hunting privilege could be counter-productive. Other issues will always be contentious. The baiting of game animals has been a LONG standing debate and always will be while there are two sides. One can't win without the other loosing.

My thought is that by this forum providing the opportunity to discuss these prickly issues it is playing a vital role.

OkKeith

[Steve D]

Scanning many of the replies, here's my take . We are a novelty at best  and have been and will
be even more of one in the future. Basic bowhunting and the methods tanked a long, long time ago.
Enjoy it for yourselves and maybe some family members, friends etc, as for the most part were done as far as
changing the direction of the so called bowhunting.

Where I live I have never seen anything that reasonably limits or  restricts the onslaught of technology.
My take  as a starting point on a reasonable  drawing the line would be no release's for compounds and no electronics of any kind on bow and in the field,  plus some heavy restrictions on certain hunting methods but that is not ever going to happen. Its a lost cause regardless of the rose colored optimism of some.

[Wudstix]

In SA TX on government land I am usually the solo stick bow, more efficient means are the norm.

[Bvas]

And I've had tons of fun, entertainment, and and blood trails sitting over a feeder.... And I'm sure I'll do it again many times......

But I never gained any woodsmanship. I'm not going to kid myself or anyone else.

No offense (but probably is ), if you’ve sat a feeder and learned nothing than you weren’t paying attention.
I’ve hunted over and around feeders many times and have learned quite a bit. Even more with the use of cameras.
-How deer interact with each other
-How pecking order influences behavior. (Losing antlers knocks you right down the list)
-How deer can be upwind and bust you using thermals and drafts.
-Older deer rarely travel the same path as youngsters. And why.
-What weather gets deer on their feet during daylight in each part of the season.

I could continue, but I think you get the point. Not only have I learned while sitting at bait, but have also used it to educate my kids on deer behavior. Do my kids always sit bait....no. But it sure helps keep them interested in hunting when they get to see game.

Again not meant to offend. But next time you hunt bait, pay attention to the details. It might make you a better hunter

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

Since we've made it this far , lol...


I loathe youth seasons.

There was a time you earned your way to join the men in the woods. That alone was a major accomplishment ! To be finally a part , a member !

Then to draw blood as part of that fraternity was a feeling like no other .

Youth seasons have taken that away. You can justify youth seasons however you want, but we've robbed our young people of something big.

[Wudstix]

I have noticed that deer come in to a feeder "wired for sound" they know that is not natural.  It is sometimes harder to get a shot at a mature deer and not a fawn or 18 month old doe, around a feeder.  Usually, it is far better to hunt the trails 50 yards or better off the barrel throwing food.  Every now and then during the rut a crazed buck will follow a sweet thing right in to the feeder, but that is seldom.  Also, no amount of movement goes unnoticed near a feeder.  I always seem to need a slow stretch at the wrong time, after scanning the area closely, it never fails.  Snort, blow and gone. 

[Wudstix]

 

[GCook]

Most out of state hunters are hunting a feeder placed by someone else.  They didn't decide on location using their own knowledge and skills.  Knowing prevailing wind directions for stand placement, knowing to place where morning and evening low sun isn't lighting you up or blinding you, multiple stands needed most times.  The trails mature bucks will use to scent for doe downwind of feeders during pre-rut and rut.  The bedding areas, funnels to the set up, the creek or ditch crossings.  It's not their fault, they don't have the time on destination hunts to do that.

[southernarcher]

The only issue I have with anything going on in hunting today are some of the poor shot angles that seem to have become the new norm.

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

The only issue I have with anything going on in hunting today are some of the poor shot angles that seem to have become the new norm.

The new norm ? LOL !! Look through some older books with shot placement angles .

[pavan]

The Green New Deal says that all cows must die because they have gas.  If you have gas, you may exterminated. Does this guarantee that we can still hunt deer?  Gassy bunch of corn junkies that they are.  People as a whole are quite lazy and afraid of challenge, when a society has no spine things go down hill fast. 

[southernarcher]

Aaron maybe I should rephrase, It seemed we had gotten away from all that, so I guess it is the norm again?

[Terry Green]

I hear you Bvas.... Observations and all,  But  I didn't have to learn anything  To kill a deer over a feeder.  Most of which I could have gotten by watching national geographic...... But it's much more fun seeing it live I will attest.

 Oh believe me, I pay attention. That's what makes a successful hunter.

If huntedover a feeder was all I ever did my whole life, there's a wealth of information I would have never learned.

 I really didn't learn anything on my out West feeder hunts  that I could bring back East.  It would not be as easy going back the other way....from hunting a feeder all your life then suddenly going far away with no feeder.....the learning  curve is MUCH greater.

[Tooner]

Looks like all my comments are falling on deaf ears. They're all pretty simple and factual. The orgional poster had nothing to say about legal or illegal yet that's being touted about.....or maybe some kind of justification?...I don't know.

 And I've had tons of fun, entertainment, and and blood trails sitting over a feeder.... And I'm sure I'll do it again many times......

But I never gained any woodsmanship. I'm not going to kid myself or anyone else.

 What bothers me is a generation that only knows hunting over a pile of corn.... And would not be able to hunt otherwise.   No, skills weren't lost, they were never learned.....and never passed down.

THIS is what I think most are afraid of....and for good reason.... To date it has never been threatened like it is being today..... And I'm not just talking about traditional bowhunting ....but all hunting.


Anyone ever hear of the Conch Island Sea Gulls?

Your comments aren't falling on deaf ears, it's just that there are more "facts" to consider.

People seem to think that the only thing consider is the needs and wants and desires of the hunter.  It is not.  Those are things that are unique to every individual and are left up to the individual within the parameters of the law and the goals of the game departments.

Whether we like it or not, hunters are simply the tool that game departments use to effectively manage game populations for the benefit of the game itself, the habitat in which they live, and society in general.  The individual experience of the hunter is only relevant to the extent that it keeps them participating and therefore accomplishing the goals of the game departments.

In many areas of the country, even with all the technology and methods designed to make things easier, hunters simply can not, or will not kill enough deer to keep them within the carrying capacity of the habitat, keep them healthy, and keep negative interactions with humans to an acceptable level.  That is also a fact.

If the only way to hunt deer was with recurves and longbows, from the ground, without the use of unnecessary technology, the ramifications would be devastating to the herd itself, the habitat, and society as a whole.  That is also a fact.

Game departments are going to keep adding seasons, allowable methods, and allowable technology until their management goals are achieved.  That is also a fact.

The laws allows each hunter to make their personal experience what they want it to be, AND work toward the goals of proper game management.

Learning woodsmanship skills and killing animals based only on that is a laudable goal for sure.  Unfortunately it doesn't mean much when deer are dying of disease, starvation, and habitat destruction and personal property damage is rampant.