ASL ?

[Forwardhandle]

I'm thinking about building a ASL type bow this year I have never shot a fairly strait glass bow I have shot wood & bamboo backed strait bows so I have no idea how they shoot in glass but I'm thinking of trying one with maybe some slight reflex and using a super lam for a little better string angle has any body built one like that also what do you ASL guys think the minimum length I could use for a 31" draw any info would be appreciated also how wide are these type bows from a front view & riser lengths ?

[Flem]

Never used a super lamb
I draw 28.5 on a recurve, but only about 27 or so on a Hill style. I would guess a 70"  would work for you.
I like a short riser and lots of working limb, so I not going to be much help there. Risers, 12" on a 66" and 13" on a 68". Typical width for me is 1 1/8"-1 3/8" . I prefer deep and narrow, with tiny tips. I don't deviate much from classic Hill dimensions.

[Forwardhandle]

Ok thanks Flem I appreciate it I'm really in never never land I'm still researching every thing but thinking of making it similar to a self bow caul I have where there is about 2" reflex in the outer 3rd  I'm thinking .004 taper ? What taper are you using ?  And how thick of riser are you starting with I have seen some guys weight the riser with lead , I was thinking 68" ntn but could go longer I was thinking the tip wedges would allow a little shorter bow ?  I was maybe thinking use a 30 lb standard stack figuring with the reflex and extra draw length would get me in the 45-50 lb. range but total speculation !

[Flem]

I like .003 total taper. My Risers usually start out 1 1/2- 1 3/4" tall, 1 1/2" wide. Never weighted a handle. I  love that you can carry one of these up and down mountains all day and forget its there. I don't use tip wedges, so cant help you there. Depending on the core wood, a .490-.510 stack usually get me 50lbs
I use thinner glass, I like them to take a tiny bit of set so I know the wood is doing some work.
These are my quirky preferences, I'm definitely not the benchmark to shoot for!

[kennym]

I'm totally out on this one, but good luck, Ritchie...

ASLs are not my thing, hate the grip on them but a lot of guys are lovin em!

[Garman]

I by far am no expert but I have built 3, 4 very soon. When I have time I will speak more.

[Garman]

I see Lem has spoke to this better than I could. The first real one I built was a stack sent by kenny, black glass, hard maple bamboo, Osage taper with clear glass over tapers and riser. It is fairly spunky . Bow  it is in the high 50's at 29". The only thing I added was limb overlays made of purpleheart. It shoots better for me than my bear grizzly recurve. But I am far from a good shot. I believe it is the grip. I really like the simplicity.

[Forwardhandle]

Thanks Fellas I'm thinking at least first thoughts on the design 14" riser with the super lam that will extend the ramps a couple inches all maple lams with some belly lam & glass running up the ramps with some minor reflex in the outer third like in the ruff templet where it shouldn't cause any stack issues & give me a good string angle ,Kenny I don't know if I will like it but only one way to find out bro

[Forwardhandle]

Started reading this book Im not making the same bow as him but loads of info on the topic ! He is one for lead loading the riser !

[Flem]

I checked that book out. Some good info for sure. You can pretty much skip to the last chapter, cause you already know how to make bows. His bow pretty much evolved to the point they look like Hill bows in profile and tiller. His design also seems to borrow certain elements from Sunset Hill, who appears to be a Schulz disciple.

[Forwardhandle]

Good, looking forward to reading it well I'm in a good position I don't have any preferance as of yet , I think I'm going to order a slab of LVL for the form going topless again just need to iron out my reflex design the other reason I'm keeping all the reflex in the outer 3rd is so I can play with riser length , I'm liking the idea of a skinny bow 

[Forwardhandle]

The more I think about it I'm thinking it might be better to start with a strait form for the purpose of establishing stack swag at my draw, a lot of info on the strait bow stacks !  at least once established I can add in the SL then reflex etc !

[Stagmitis]

If you go with a straight form just be aware that you will end up with a string follow. Hill bows will lose about 1/2 inch whether straight or backset due to deep core.

[Forwardhandle]

Ok thanks for the info that's what I like about posting here get good info from guys that had there hands on the design !

[kennym]

I don't think the S/L will make a lot of diff in a longer thicker core on weight, just adjust where she bends for you.  My guess on the straight vs the reflex you show is 5-8# more on the reflexed one with same stack...?

[Forwardhandle]

Thanks Kenny I would have guessed that to ,but my stack swag has not been stealer lately...lol & thanks for this info but the more I learn the more questions come to mind like why is .050 glass common on this design maybe I thought because of the narrow limb but I have made D/R bows the same width with .040  glass maybe some body here knows ? Kenny I think I'm going for a strait form to start for the purpose of calculating stack at my draw also plan on down the line to add carbon with a more thinner stack to see if it minimizes follow !

[monterey]

The thicker glass helps to keep the glass/wood ratio in line.  For example, a Hill bow with a .500 stack and .050 glass on both front and back has a 20% ratio on glass.  Using .040 glass puts you at 16%.  Opinions vary on glass to wood ratios on bows but I'm in the 20 to 25% camp.  I'm also coming around to the idea of using a compression resistant lam under the belly glass.

Like Kenny says, adding some reflex would add about 5 to 8 # of draw weight.

With all due respect to Kenny and his superlams, going with a even taper and adding a tip wedge will give you a starting point where you can, on future bows, adjust the tip wedge to adjust the bows characteristics.  I may (probably am) wrong here, but in my mind the superlam is the perfect answer to maintaining those characteristics once you have settled on the precise taper you want in the limbs and tips.  This of course coming from someone who has never used a superlam so if you have to choose between my advice and Kenny's, you might want to lean toward Kenny.

My ASLs vary from .002 taper to .005 taper depending on the width of the limbs at the fades and the frontal profile of the overall limb.  I only use the tip wedge in the .005 taper bow.  That bow is 1 1/8" wide at the fades and no less than 5/16" at the nocks and with a 15" riser.

That's just how I do things and it's based on about 5% science and 95% hunch and intuition.

[Forwardhandle]

Thanks Mike your answer makes total sense on the glass/wood ratio , the SL is just a power lam with a .001 taper lam ending in a tip wedge , I figure there is 2 ways to go build the reflex form and swag and experiment around it or start with the strait form and modify from there , my inclination is to go for the reflex form but the smart way would be start with the strait form where there is tons of info I never claimed to be smart  it's a hard call for me given my time frame to work on bows that's why I'm asking as many questions as I can , the devils in the details on any build so when I get my home work done I guess I will decide , I'm really after a hunting bow more inclined to shoot wood arrows at my draw length then on performance l& 45 lb range vs high performance but still want to hit 170fps 10 gpp !

[jsweka]

For what its worth, here's how I make my ASLs:
68" length
16 inch riser from fade-to-fade
0.050 glass on back and belly
0.005 total taper
1 1/8" width from the center of the bow out each limb for 14 inches, then tapering to 1/2" wide at the tips
Never used a tip wedge
Straight form and the bow takes about 1/2" of string follow after stringing the first time.

I use to use 1 1/4" wide limbs with 0.002 total taper, but I like the above formula better.

Here's a full draw pic so you can see how my limbs bend.

[jsweka]

 "...but still want to hit 170fps 10 gpp!"

Sorry, but I don't think you'll be able to hit that with an ASL at 45#.  A general rule of thumb is that this style of bow will shoot 110 + the weight of the bow.  So you're looking more like 155 fps.