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Author Topic: 50#'s...  (Read 10875 times)

Online frassettor

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2019, 04:18:35 PM »
 Here’s a link to a topic that was on-TRADGANG. 45# harvest pics. Bears and moose..

http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=101178.msg1900517#msg1900517
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Offline Maddog20/20

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50#'s...
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2019, 04:37:14 PM »
The idea that you have to have higher # is just kind of antiquated.  Better limb designs, better materials, more efficient arrows...20 years ago, it would probably take a 60-70# bow to match my 50#.

My buddy shoots a 45# Black Widow and has harvested an elk pretty much every year for the last three decades.


My metric for “lethality” is the speed of a properly weighted arrow with a sharp cut on contact broadhead.  If it shoots my arrow at the right speed, I don’t care what the draw weight is.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 04:43:16 PM by Maddog20/20 »

Online pdk25

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2019, 07:48:07 PM »
My 50# Bear TD flings a 485gr arrow right at 194fps.  I can’t think of any animal I wouldn’t shoot at with that.


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So I am guessing that you draw longer than 28".  What is your draw length, and the poundage at that draw?

Offline Maddog20/20

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2019, 07:49:43 PM »
Around 29.”  The bow is 50#, but that’s at 28” so I’m probably drawing more like 55#?  Maybe?


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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2019, 07:54:43 PM »
Probably 53lbs.
Were the elk killed in the wild or on exotic ranches?  Because free range mountain elk have a success rate by archers of 11%.
Not that I care.  I'd shoot one on a Texas ranch for the fun and delicious meat myself.

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Offline Maddog20/20

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50#'s...
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2019, 08:17:29 PM »
Probably 53lbs.
Were the elk killed in the wild or on exotic ranches?  Because free range mountain elk have a success rate by archers of 11%.
Not that I care.  I'd shoot one on a Texas ranch for the fun and delicious meat myself.

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Wild in Chama, NM.  I’m sure it’s not 100%, I just can’t remember him ever not bagging one.


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« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 08:23:22 PM by Maddog20/20 »

GCook

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2019, 08:29:04 PM »
Private land and land he knows well would give him an advantage most don't have.

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Offline chris K.

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2019, 08:38:04 PM »
Ask Fred Eichler

Online pdk25

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2019, 10:36:09 PM »
Last I checked, he shot 54#@31", and went up to 59# for griz.  Not that it matters.  50# is usually a fine weight.

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2019, 10:39:20 PM »
Don't quote me on this, but I am pretty sure Jerry Russell shoots a 50# Black Widow, and has killed lots of different large animals with it.  Pretty sure his draw isn't far off of 28".  Maybe he will chime in after Bear Camp.

Offline Mike Orton

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2019, 12:40:16 AM »
I'm curious what your opinions are on the capabilities of a 50# longbow on all of North Americans big game animals. Does it have enough "juice" to ethically take down even the largest moose or bison?
The original poster to start this thread has asked a simple question that requires a highly complex answer.  More specifics are needed in his question to render a proper answer.  A 50# home-made self bow differs substantially from a (insert professional bowyer's name here) in a reflex/deflex sophisticated design or even that of the ILF designs.  The modern designs simply render more efficient use of the energy stored within the machine (bow).

This original question is a question that has been beaten to death many times  :deadhorse:.  Obviously doing the research from prior threads on Tradgang should have answered his question in the affirmative. 

In addition to the type of 50# long bow arrow build and proper tuning will play a substantial factor in this equation, as will choice of broadhead design.  Much of his answer can be found in reading the extensive Ashby research posted in the Topic Archives on the Trad Gang forum.

With respect to the animals cited, Moose are not a particularly difficult animal to penetrate in that they are not built with any armor like that of Cape Buffalo. We have several TradGangsters from Alaska whom have reported in threads on their successes in harvesting Moose with lighter bows.  Bison have been killed for thousands of years by native Americans using stone points and typically using 40 to 50 lb. self made bows.  These bows would not hold the degree of sophistication that our modern bowyers employ daily to produce far more efficient machines than those used by our Native American brethren.  As for dangerous game like the large coastal bears they too hold no outstanding armor in the vulnerable rib areas.  Their armor tends to be in the cranial cavity.  I know of no knowledgeable hunter whom would intentionally shoot for the head of a coastal bear.  The most difficult North American animal to penetrate may well be the large mature boar hogs with the grizzle armor in their shoulders.  Using proper shot placement, arrow build & tuning, combined with broadhead selection has been proven to harvest even these "American Rhinos".

Basically the most important component is not necessarily the use of a 50# Longbow to harvest the largest species of American big game but rather how much talent and knowledge of his/her equipment does the nut who's holding onto the 50# long bow possess.  So....the short answer to the original poster's question is: Yes, so long as the nut holding onto the bow has done his/her part. :knothead:

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Offline mahantango

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2019, 09:19:05 PM »
Agree 100% with Kegan.
We are all here because we are not all there.

Offline Jbseitz

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2019, 10:12:12 PM »
Well said Mr Orton
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Offline HartHeart

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2019, 10:34:23 PM »
Thank you gentlemen for the replies. I feel like the main ingredient of any kill shot is the accuracy of it. 50# is at this point as much as I can honestly say "I'm in control of the bow", and therefore shoot accurately with it. When I try to pull more, it creates a tension subconsciously, "I can't hold this very long I've got to let this string go soon" and more often than not I rush the shot process. I guess the biggest thing that I'm struggling with now is my aiming method. I've always considered myself an instinctive archer, but I find myself still referencing the arrow tip at times and it creates a lot of mental confusion and frankly I haven't been improving much accuracy wise. That being said, I have had times when I can trust my subconscious mind and simply focus on a spot and my arrow almost magically appears there(or at least very close by). Those "zones" haven't really been consistent though, and it takes a lot of concentration. Maybe if I'd stick to one setup it would help:) Wow, what a bunny trail. Ok, my question is basically, would you choose a 50# setup for moose that you are confident with over a 60# setup that is pushing you mentally and physically?
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Offline Maddog20/20

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2019, 11:46:33 PM »
Then again, there are the times when a quartering away animal suddenly becomes a quartering toward animal.  But I guess I am the only one this ever has happened to.  This hog was shot at dusk last night.


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Online pdk25

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2019, 11:48:24 PM »

"
..... Ok, my question is basically, would you choose a 50# setup for moose that you are confident with over a 60# setup that is pushing you mentally and physically?"

Clearly.  There is no point hunting with a bow that you can't control

Offline Mike Orton

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2019, 01:11:01 AM »
Thank you gentlemen for the replies. I feel like the main ingredient of any kill shot is the accuracy of it. 50# is at this point as much as I can honestly say "I'm in control of the bow", and therefore shoot accurately with it. When I try to pull more, it creates a tension subconsciously, "I can't hold this very long I've got to let this string go soon" and more often than not I rush the shot process. I guess the biggest thing that I'm struggling with now is my aiming method. I've always considered myself an instinctive archer, but I find myself still referencing the arrow tip at times and it creates a lot of mental confusion and frankly I haven't been improving much accuracy wise. That being said, I have had times when I can trust my subconscious mind and simply focus on a spot and my arrow almost magically appears there(or at least very close by). Those "zones" haven't really been consistent though, and it takes a lot of concentration. Maybe if I'd stick to one setup it would help:) Wow, what a bunny trail. Ok, my question is basically, would you choose a 50# setup for moose that you are confident with over a 60# setup that is pushing you mentally and physically?

Suggest you youtube search the term "The Push"  This is a lengthy well done production addressing exactly what is going on within your mind.  I was once right with you brother....The Push helped me immensely.
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Offline Wheels2

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2019, 08:50:24 AM »
Any more the performance range of longbows is wide.  I see the same question posed a lot in regards to 40# bows for deer.
I have had a few swipes taken at me for my opinion that minimal is not the best option.
The best way to get a valid opinion is to post artow weight and speed so as to get a momentum value.  Ask just the moose hunters.  Especially with the issue of broadheads.   Two blade penetrates better than 3, smaller better than large, etc.2
 
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Online Orion

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2019, 09:57:41 AM »
Regarding 50# vs 60# for moose, I'd offer this observation.  The adrenalin is really pumping when you draw on a critter.  I doubt you would notice the additional weight (when drawing on a critter).  Too, a moose has a large kill zone, providing a little more margin for error. 

I've only hunted moose twice and killed a nice bull the second time.  I was shooting 66# at the time.  That was a while ago.  I can no longer handle 66#, not 60# either.  However, should I have the opportunity to hunt moose again, I'd practice with a weight i can comfortably handle, then bump it up about 5# shortly before the hunt.

Offline acedoc

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Re: 50#'s...
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2019, 02:12:55 PM »
well said by mr orton!

i would like to offer a comparison between two bows- these are marked 52 @31 and 50 @28. they are drawn to 31(ish). the same arrow generates a speed of 185 fps with one and 205 with the second bow. clearly we have different techniques in construction playing up. now leaving aside the difference in poundage all we have left is ease of shooting and confidence in your own ability. a miss even with a 100 lb bow and a lodge pole will be a miss. targets do behave differently and even the shooter is prone to errors when relaxed, let alone when in a pressure scenario.

the nut holding the bow has to do the job, if you are consistent with the bow arrow combo you are good.
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