Trad only season

[Tooner]

Every bow season is "trad only" season for me. 

[Wudstix]

Inside some of the bigger city limits would be a great opportunity then we can manage some of the critters causing traffic accidents.

[30coupe]

I've never shot a crossbow, nor do I intend to, but to argue that they are not "traditional" is beyond silly. As near as anyone can figure, they were developed sometime between the 7th and 5th Centuries BC! Granted, they didn't come with scopes, lasers, etc., but they have been around for a while. I wouldn't propose that they belong here because that's just not the type of traditional equipment we are about here, but the basic weapon is older than our foam cored, graphite backed, reflex-deflex super dooper traditional longbows. 

In Iowa you are supposed to have some sort of disability to use one, but as many as they seem to be selling here, I think a hangnail might just qualify. My only problem with crossbows is the idea too many neophyte hunters have that since it has a scope and shoots faster than a compound bow, you can shoot game at rifle-like ranges. At best they will miss a lot. At worst they will wound a lot.

Okay, I'm done. Time to go hunting! 

[OkKeith]

The OP had an idea about "Traditional" (whatever that means) Archery seasons and the discussion devolved into third grade name calling. We are better than that here on TradGang folks... at least we profess that we are. I think a season such as that would be fantastic, unfortunately it would collapse under it's own weight. Just the cost to keep check stations open outside the regular seasons would never be recuperated (HOLY COW, don't let a government agency operate at a loss! And CERTIANLY don't make our tags more expensive!). Also as the OP stated he wasn't looking at taking weeks from other seasons, so what does that leave? As stated in another post, here in Oklahoma we have one area that is Traditional Archery Only and it is federal property and accessed ONLY by annual draw. Oh... and the permits are not necessarily inexpensive. Traditional Archery just can't foot the bill alone (and we would probably be unwilling to pay what it might take anyway).

I can hunt with my longbows and recurves from October 1 through January 15 on any tag (as far as method of taking). Will there be other hunters in the woods with other methods of taking in their hands? Yes... not my worry. What is also not my worry is if they will "get my deer" or "have a better chance to kill something than I do". Much (not all, but a lot) of this kind of negative discourse comes from the human tendency to be selfish. It is along the lines of "I have chosen how I want to hunt and I don't want anyone less restricted than I choose to be for myself". If you spend your day afield all bound up by the idea that you have to "get yours before someone else gets it" my opinion is... you are out there for the wrong reason.

Wildlife Management Agencies DO NOT manage populations. They barely manage habitat due to a lack of funding. What they can manage is opportunity. Again, trying to make villains out of these hard working public servants (of which I was once one of) is unfair and petty. Hunters as a group demand much and provide little. A collective moan goes up whenever the cost of tags or access fees increases. As hunters we like to crow about how we pay our own way and are the ones who foot the bill for wildlife conservation in America but we sure gripe when the bill comes due or the plate is passed.

Politics, religion... hunting methods. Everyone thinks THEY have the right idea and everyone else not like them is wrong. I am here to tell you guys and gals that I hunt with other tools besides my longbows and recurves because I enjoy it. I suppose its a "Most Interesting Sportsman in The World" type of thing... I don't always archery hunt, but when I do I use a single string bow. We want to make out that everyone who hunts with something other than a single string bow is a bad guy, or evil. That just isn't so. It is simply dishonest to jump into the middle of the groupthink and pile-on with the internet because there is some measure of anonymity. My wife shoots hunting tools other than longbows or recurves. So what?

OkKeith

[Roy from Pa]

Keith

      That was excellent and very very true.   

[KentuckyWolf]

Decisions at DNR/FW are not always made based on science (managing habitat and wildlife) or the interest of the sportsmen. I can only speak for what I know of Kentucky but no one was pushing for the inclusion of crossbows in archery season other than manufacturers. The manufacturers wined and dined commissioners. Similarly, there was no one pushing for the inclusion of large caliber air rifles in the weapons allowed for rifle season.....but manufacturers “helped” commissioners see their side of an argument that no one was having.

I once sat in on a Commissioners meeting in which the fur bearer season was extended because one commissioner said they should because there were to many coons in his district (later said he knew this because they kept getting in his trash). The state fur bearer biologist said not to...didn’t know what it would do to populations and it’s feasibility would need study/review. The coon hunters association president jumped up and said his members would not want it....the pelts would not be good (super early start to season). It passed. All commissioners in favor. The fur bearer biologist about lost him mind...the wording on the amendment was so bad that it would include bobcats and otters. So, the reworded it at least....and passed it again.

[OkKeith]

Thank you Roy...

You are absolutely correct Brandon... I have seen that sort of thing MANY times in my career and not just in wildlife and fisheries management but across the gamut of natural resources issues.

If KY's commission works anything like those I have worked for, Commissioners are appointed by the Governor (or at some level of elected official) and many times those appointments have much more to do with campaign donations than knowledge of sound management principles or ecological truth. That's is why (in my opinion) most Executive Directors of Fish and Game Agencies more than earn their money. They have to operate and be effective in both worlds. They have to play the political game well enough to keep their job and be technically savvy enough to make a difference on the landscape. Unfortunately chief among these skills is knowing what battles to fight and what to let go. The best of these professionals manage to get the job done and earn the respect of both employees and politicians.

The reason those "salesmen" have such a compelling argument has everything to do with the tax on hunting and shooting gear. If a new hunting tool is all the rage and selling hot, it generates more tax dollars on that equipment (which as consumers we actually pay for) and consequentially more federal funding for state agencies based on the number of licensed hunters. If that same tool gets more hunters in the woods (with newly purchased licenses)... double bonus.

My thought on your example is that the real fur trappers won't be putting any effort in to trap lines if the fur isn't saleable, so maybe there will be little impact on the resource. 

As an aside... the truth to all those tax dollars has much more to do with recreational shooting (guns and ammo) than it does hunting equipment, just as the fishing side has more to do with recreational boats/ jet skis and the gas they buy than it does any fishing rod or crappie boat.

OkKeith

[Ronnie Newell]

Mr. Kieth I hope you don't think I'm selfish just because I don't want to be in the woods with gun hunters. I hunt nothing but hogs. Have no desire to hunt anything I won't eat. You have no idea what other hunters have been through. Do you not realize how many people are shot every year by hunters that shoot at anything that moves, especially during either sex seasons. I've personally lost several friends this way. One in particular shot his own son out of a tree. I think what you're saying is implying that SOME people are selfish because they don't want me to have some time to hunt that they aren't interested in. Hope you aren't one of them...

[OkKeith]

Ronnie-

First let me say how sorry and heartbroken I am for your loss of friends in fatal hunting incidents. As a Hunter Education Instructor and having been associated with the International Hunter Education Association for nearly twenty-five years I am all too familiar with the statistics on fatal hunting incidents across the United States.

I think you have misunderstood my meaning. You should hunt what and whenever the law allows you to do so. If you do not want to be in the woods during a season that allows hunting tools you are uncomfortable with I fully support that. What I have a hard time getting behind is the idea that since we want to use our favorite tools, it negates the same opportunity that others wish to have with other tools. My opinion is that choosing one hunting tool over (or in addition to) any other provides no moral or ethical superiority. I would love to have a stick bow only season here in Oklahoma but it is just not feasible for many reasons and those reasons are shared in all states. Me getting angry or nasty with hunters who choose to hunt differently than I do only diminishes my enjoyment of the hunt and my character.

Unfortunately poor hunter safety is not limited to those that hunt with firearms. I know that the Hunter Education folks in Louisiana are working as hard as we are here in Oklahoma to prevent future injury and death in the field.

OkKeith

[Captain*Kirk]

Some deep, sincere thoughts going around the campfire here
By all means, keep the debates going, and let's all keep our cool as we discuss the subject.
There are truly two sides to the coin.

[RJonesRCRV]

More seasons/ variations there of would just make things more confusing and expensive.  Right now it is muzzleloader season in Southern MD, so I need a muzzleloader stamp to bow hunt, on top of my archery stamp.  If we get traditional archery singled out, then next we will end up with a traditional bow stamp to go on top of the archery stamp, both of which will have to go with the pointless muzzleloader stamp that I dont actually use.  We already have early archery, early muzzleloader, general firearms, late muzzleloader, late archery (we can use bows in all seasons at least), prob some scattered general firearms days throughout, so on and so forth.  Its a lot to remember and keep track of day to day.

Basically I feel that there are already enough opportunities for government clowns to make more laws; we shouldnt give them more.  Before you know it, theyll end up taking a half second to research trad archery and see someone say that fastflight is best, so B50 will be banned for hunting (or some other ridiculous idea).  Keep it as simple as possible.

As far as opportunities for disabled hunters or kids, maybe give them the day before opening day, Sundays, or designated areas during certain times.  But still keep it as simple as possible.

[Bully]

I’m not sure what it is that the OP is trying to accomplish with a “trad only” season.
Currently, by choice, I hunt with a crossbow. I don’t currently have the skill set to feel comfortable taking a shot at a living creature with a Trad set-up. I’m working on it, gonna take a few lessons and I’m blessed that a member here is able to offer advice to me when I ask. I’m currently working on a consistent draw cycle and will then start to tune arrows to my bow. But why would you want to alienate another bow hunter, simply because you don’t agree with my choice of weapon? 

Further, with hunter numbers steadily declining we should be encouraging and including anyone that is interested in trying it in any way we safely can. We need the numbers to both continue to find conservation and to allow those of us with a bent toward hunting to be able to continue to engage in the activity. We truly don’t need any further deviceiveness within our small cadre.
I’m not saying all seasons should be mashed up. I believe that bow season should be separate from all gun seasons. It makes sense to me that way.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation

Best post on this thread!!!!
Quit pissing and moaning and hunt. 
Hunt with what you feel comfortable with.
Get a young person into hunting with any weapon.
We'll all be better off for it.

That's a first.

Interesting development of this thread.  Interesting to see how we all feel.  How hunting is such a personal journey for those that choose to take the step. 

[Tooner]

In my opinion, there should be one season for all firearms and one season for all archery equipment (whatever each individual state says is legal).  Separation of the two makes sense to me for safety reasons.

Further fragmentation only creates animosity and encourages fighting between camps, something hunters don't need any more of in this day and age.

Make your season whatever you want it to be and allow others to do the same.  The fact that someone on the next piece is hunting with a crossbow or a compound doesn't affect my hunt in any way, shape or form.

[Sam McMichael]

For all my hunting life, I have been in the woods with rifle hunters. Part of that time I was a rifle shooter as well. When hunting with the bow, it never bothered me that there were rifles in the forest. It is nice to have a separate archery season, but it is so hot I don't hunt the earlier bow only season very often. I'm hunting only that deer that comes within about 20 yards from me. As long as no hunter is crowding me, I'm o.k. That said, I have never encountered a rude and surly archer. I've seen a bunch of inconsiderate riflemen, who thought bowhunting should not be allowed. Mostly, they complain mockingly  that "nobody" can make a killing shot with a bow. One guy looked kinda funny when I suggested he stand off about 20 yards and let me shoot an arrow at him.

However, I do like the idea of archery only areas. Yet a dispute will no doubt arise as to which areas are the best hunting places. Luckily, I can bowhunt during the rifle season, which greatly extends the hunting season and all areas are accessible.  DNR might alternate the designated areas so that the "best" hunting grounds will be available to all on a rotating basis. The only issue there is helping hunters keep straight on which areas they are to use from year to year - it could be confusing. So, I'll go back to my original preference. Perhaps a simple distinction of non firearms season vs a firearms season, and let it go at that. I don't think we will ever come up with a universally acceptable plan, though/

[pavan]

A good place to have a traditional archery only hunt is the Boundary Waters Area moose season in the canoe only sections.  They could offer more tags and give people an opportunity to have more than a once in a life time chance for a Minnesota moose.  I suggested before to a Minnesota group and got the excuse, paraphrasing to eliminate the threats and cuss words, 'What about us gun hunters and motor boat people, don't we get a little of the sugar too?' Answer was simple, again paraphrasing, 'learn how to shoot a recurve or a longbow and paddle a canoe, neither one is rocket science.  Women and young girls can do it, so manly power boat drivers should have no problem.' 
   Just like the manly man that was bragging here yesterday about shooting a buck at 65 yards with a crossbow.  I asked, "why a crossbow, how did you get that permit?" Answer,"I have never shot a regular bow or a compound, I hurt my shoulder once."  I see that more and more, people that have physical jobs that appear fit, strong and able, can do all kinds of lifting and over head work and have no problem doing their job, but come up with all kinds of excuses to get a crossbow permit.  When admitting that he had never shot any kind of a bow before and never even tried to shoot a recurve or a compound recently, that was the obvious tell.

[Bowwild]

I might have been interested in such a position in my earlier years. A survey of deer hunters, by my FW agency changed my way of thinking about 18 years ago.

I have a trad-only season any time I want it. I can be 100 yards from son who is using his compound. My physically challenged best friend can be using his crossbow in the same woods.

[RodL]

I personally would like to see some traditional only areas but not a traditional only season and here is why. Right now in my home state of Maryland our bow season for region A which is the far western part of the state runs from early September to the end of January with some breaks in between for muzzleloader, rifle. I can hunt with traditional equipment anytime I want during the archery season, if by chance a "traditional only" season is created, who's  to say that a group of people with push for a "compound only" season, then a "crossbow only" season, I know that it is a stretch to have those seasons created but it could happen. If that would happen I would only be able to hunt the "traditional only" season and then set out the rest of the year because I wouldn't be able to use my traditional equipment during those other "(____ ) only" seasons. And who would decide when the traditional only season would be, and I'm sure someone wouldn't like the dates set if it ever happens.  Like I said earlier I would love to see some "traditional only" areas but wouldn't be in favor of a traditional only season.

Rodney
 

[Wudstix]

AS stated several times above Trad Only Areas would be the way to go.

[stagetek]

Spot on C.R. In WI. we already have more than enough "special seasons".

[Pine]

OK I'll put on my .02
I have about 11 acres that I am the only one hunting.
The only time I get any deer sighting is when the surrounding areas are being hunted by some of the aforementioned types of hunters.
But I will add that I have only one small white oak tree that just doesn't hold the deer.
But by late October I get more deer than I can count.
There's much hunting pressure surrounding my property and from my observation, they don't worry about stealth, thus more deer opportunity for me.
So I guess in my personal situation, they don't bother me.