Help with Hill-style bow shooting

[DawgDoc]

Guys - looking for some help from the ASL shooters. I have had a burning desire to shot an ASL for some time. I have been shooting a recurve since I started shooting 23 years ago at 13 years of age. For the last 15 years I've always shot around 60lb. I thought since I was not used to the form required for a straight grip bow I would drop down to low 50s. I have adjusted to shooting the bow well and am shooting for form at 10 yds. mostly and grouping within a baseball size but no matter what I do I am popping my bow arm consisitently every 3 out of 5 shots. I am gripping like Hill describes as "picking up a suit case". I do "heel" the grip a little but do not think its any more than I see other Hill shooters. I have tried bending my bow arm more to get my forearm out of the path of the string to no avail. It's hitting my arm about 3" from the wrist. The bow is 66" and the suggested BH was 6.5". I raised it to 6.75" and it helped some but still hitting my arm. Any suggestions from you Hill bow guys?
Sincerely,
Bruised and sore in South Georgia

[Todd Cook]

You may need to get a little better hold on it. If you're used to a recurve grip you're probably holding it too loose. Other than that I don't do anything different than any other bow.

[nineworlds9]

Couple questions-

-what type of string are you using?  If B50, they have more stretch on the shot and will have much more tendency to strike the arm/armguard than a low/no-stretch FF string.

-with the bend in the bow arm are you also adding some external rotation to your elbow?-- so that it is turned slightly out away from your body?  This will also help get your arm out of the way.

The hold like a suitcase grip w/ some heel is valid, I also have always found that I need to grip a Hill more firmly as well to get it to shoot the way they were meant to, basically hold it firm enough as if you had a squirmy little animal in your hand that you didn't want to escape, but also didn't want to maim, you follow?  Doing this will both reduce any perceived handshock and also make sure the limbs are timed correctly on the shot. 

Lastly, Howard wore an armguard quite frequently, with Hill bows do not be afraid to wear one, and don't let anyone tell you that needing one on a Hill reflects poorly on your shooting.  People wore them for a reason! 

I do think with a quality FF string and working on the elbow external rotation you should solve most of your issue.   

[Orion]

Agree with nine worlds.  Opening your stance a little, i.e., turning more toward the target, would also help.  As already noted, a low stretch string will reduce the string slap.

[DawgDoc]

Yes its a B-50 string. I feel like its hitting me on the rebound of the string following the shot and not the initial powerstroke of the shot - I may try adding some silencers and see if that helps first to reduce rebound of the string following the shot based on what you guys are telling me. I haven't worn an armguard in 10 years but may need to start again. I think I'm gripping firmly but not too tightly but may just take some time to work it out.

[STICKBENDER98]

I was having a similar problem with one of my Northern Mist bows, when I asked Steve about why it was happening with just this bow, (I have 5 different models of his bows, I know I may have a problem)  we happened to be at the bow show in Kalamazoo, he had me hold and draw the same model I was having trouble with, my form was ok but he had me loosen my grip slightly with my index and middle finger, and tighten it with my ring finger and pinky, and not surprising it worked no more arm slap.  I still wear an arm guard just because I have worn one for years, and like you I shot recurve for years before switching to Hill style bows about 5-6 years ago, now I can go back and forth between the different styles without any issues.  Good luck and happy shooting.


Jason

[frassettor]

I’ve had the same issues as you. I ended up with a brace height of 6 3/4 as well. Heavy arrows helped . But even with all of this, I still had to wear an armguard . I also shoot a B-50 string. I shoot nothing but longbows. I’ll be watching this one. I “heel “it too, as I do with all of my longbows.
Just an FYI, I was told by so many respected ASL shooters on here that an armguard is a must. I’ve tried bending my bow arm more as well, I have had no luck either. Great questions!

[Dao]

...I guess I'm one of the few that shoots hill style with totally loose grip.... found it to be better for me.  the bow just jumps once and no shock to the arm or body. and because I'm not torquing the bow, the string just releases forward, so I never needed an arm guard, and my BH is 6". (my aim, isn't as good, but I'm working on it )

[two4hooking]

Longbows and Arm guards go together.  Your doing it right if it bites your wrist about 3 inches up.  Hill said that and wore one always.     you don't need a different string or silencers either. Shoot it like a longbow and get a nice classy leather bracer. It will keep your hunting clothes out of the string path also.

[Overspined]

People make a big deal about grips, and although there are some I don’t prefer, I hold all bows the same, with the only change of high wristing the appropriate bows and low wristing those that are built that way. Definitely heel an ASL. Don’t grab it tight. I pull it into my bow hand and just lay my fingers on the front of the bow. Sounds like you’ve studied Howard’s grip, that’s probably how your bow hand should look. Then, the bow arm should have a slight bend, as if your pushing an electric drill into a wall. That’s the perfect bend. Also, no need to go under 6.75” brace heights. You’ll gain nothing and some bows get squirrelly. Just not necessary and if you’re looking to try and gain 1-2 FPS go shoot a compound. That’s it. You’ll hit the arm guard. Who cares. ASL are light, so follow through.

[Overspined]

...I guess I'm one of the few that shoots hill style with totally loose grip.... found it to be better for me.  the bow just jumps once and no shock to the arm or body. and because I'm not torquing the bow, the string just releases forward, so I never needed an arm guard, and my BH is 6". (my aim, isn't as good, but I'm working on it )

Raise your brace to 6.75-7” and your accuracy will improve I promise

[Silent footed]

...I guess I'm one of the few that shoots hill style with totally loose grip.... found it to be better for me.  the bow just jumps once and no shock to the arm or body. and because I'm not torquing the bow, the string just releases forward, so I never needed an arm guard, and my BH is 6". (my aim, isn't as good, but I'm working on it )

Hey Dao, you're not the only hill-style shooter who uses a loose grip...although, I thought I was the only hill-style shooter in New York!

Dawdoc, don't sweat the arm guard. It's no big deal if you need one. Just make sure your form is indeed correct.

[two4hooking]

A 7 inch brace height

It aint a recurve. Explain how a 7 inch bh on a Hill bow is more accurate? Maybe your arrow is overspined.

[Overspined]

A 7 inch brace height

It aint a recurve. Explain how a 7 inch bh on a Hill bow is more accurate? Maybe your arrow is overspined.

All of mine are 6 5/8-6.75” brace. Even Hill archery will show brace heights will vary based on bow length, I just find it an easy spot and if arrows need a tweaking it gives me a little room either way, and if my string slips off the bow it probably won’t unwind enough to go too low. If it went to 7” you’d never know, but I’ve been shooting these things for literally 30 years and played around a lot, and just found that below 6.5” is not my friend. I’m not sure why. Maybe it’s my form, but a higher brace will improve a bow’s shoot ability IMO within reason vs going too low. Also the sound of the bow upon release seems perfect at 6.5” and a bit higher.

[DawgDoc]

Thanks for all of the replies guys - got a leather armguard on order and just going to keep practicing!

[Dao]

Hey Dao, you're not the only hill-style shooter who uses a loose grip...although, I thought I was the only hill-style shooter in New York!

I'm primary recurve shooter. I just don't change my shooting style from bow to bow.  (my shooting style did change, but that's another story).  anyway there's plenty of die-hard HH enthusiasts in upstate NY!  One of them would role his eyes at me for shooting the way I do. 

[Mike Mecredy]

check your nock fit, you should be able to pick up the weight of the arrow with the bow, but you shouldn't be able to lift up the bow with the arrow nocked on the string.  With a dacron string, an an ASL the nock fit needs to be very subtle. 

[RJonesRCRV]

I never wear an arm guard anymore, even at archery shoots, unless Im wearing a bulky jacket.  I started rotating my elbow outwards so the inside "pocket" of my elbow is pointed more towards the bow handle instead of upwards.  Its feels awkward at first, and you have to remember to do it each shot, but it helped me.  Now even on a long weekend shoot, Ill get maybe 2 or 3 string slaps.  And its one less item to worry about taking with me.

This works with all 3 of my bows, 2 of which are Hill style

[Sam McMichael]

The only time I hit my arm is when I don't bend my bow arm at all. Still, I use an arm guard always. Hill also used one regularly.

[tzolk]

I don't know if this helps out but I was fooling around with my wife's new cell phone because it has super slow motion and this shows me shooting my Toelke Super D from 3 different angles. I did it to watch the arrow paradox off the shelf. Brace is 7". It's pretty much a 68"ASL  bow with slight reflex towards the ends.  Maybe you'll see something in it as far as how to hold the bow, or maybe not. I only use an arm guard when hunting, to keep the clothes tight on the arm.