Author Topic: Selfbow build along.  (Read 6102 times)

Offline Petrichor

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Selfbow build along.
« on: November 18, 2019, 02:02:25 PM »
Alright I figured I had enough questions to warrant my own thread. I have been working an osage stave for about 1.5 years. I currently have the bow in the floor tillering stage. What has paused the project for so long are the issues I have run into with the stave. The center line line of the stave is off the riser completely by about a quarter inch. When looking at the bottom limb from the back of the bow straight at the back the limb veers off to the right.  This stave was dried when I got it. Is there any risk in using steam this late in the game or should dry heat be used?  I dont think I want to take any more off the limb before I get this fixed. Is this something I have pushed off too long and should just tiller it out? Any help or advice is welcome. I dont have a time table for finishing it but if I can get it done for the hog hunt in january that would be awesome. Here are some pics.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 09:34:30 PM by Petrichor »
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Offline Mad Max

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2019, 02:07:52 PM »
Pat knows what he's saying.
Quote-------Get it to low brace and see how it looks. The twist will not hurt the bow in that stave. Once you get it to brace, under tension, you will be able to better see the twist and where it is.
 Like I said before you can tiller out twist too. It is at full draw where you see good tiller, not in a relaxed stave. By removing wood from the strong side of each limb as the bow is drawn when you hit full draw the twist can be eliminated even though it is still there when relaxed.
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Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2019, 02:16:59 PM »
Pat knows what he's saying.
Quote-------Get it to low brace and see how it looks. The twist will not hurt the bow in that stave. Once you get it to brace, under tension, you will be able to better see the twist and where it is.
 Like I said before you can tiller out twist too. It is at full draw where you see good tiller, not in a relaxed stave. By removing wood from the strong side of each limb as the bow is drawn when you hit full draw the twist can be eliminated even though it is still there when relaxed.
good deal I am planning on doing that for the twist. What about the lateral bend should this wait till after low brace to fix?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 02:50:06 PM by Petrichor »
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Online Pat B

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2019, 04:55:56 PM »
If the string tracks along the handle the bow will shoot. You can also line up the string by removing wood from one side or the other at the handle and at the tips. That's why I leave the handle area and the tips untouched until the tiller is at brace at least. You don't need finished handle or limb tips to tiller a bow. Leave them both wide for adjustment sake.
 Once the bow is braced you will be able to see better where you'll need to make any heat adjustments.
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Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 05:00:43 PM »
If the string tracks along the handle the bow will shoot. You can also line up the string by removing wood from one side or the other at the handle and at the tips. That's why I leave the handle area and the tips untouched until the tiller is at brace at least. You don't need finished handle or limb tips to tiller a bow. Leave them both wide for adjustment sake.
 Once the bow is braced you will be able to see better where you'll need to make any heat adjustments.

Sounds good.  I think I have a bit more wood to take off belly before i can get to low brace. Right now i do not even have temp nocks in. Do you use some sort of tillering string or stringer that does not require these?
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Offline Mad Max

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 05:57:58 PM »
Just file them in about 1/8" or SO (Enough to hold the string) and you can make them deeper later.
Just down the sides, not on the belly
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Online Pat B

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2019, 10:35:38 PM »
x2
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2019, 09:15:40 AM »
When I encounter a slight problem like yours I bend the handle 100% of the time and don't do wood removal. A 1/16" bend in the handle will move the tips an inch or so, I use dry heat.

You can heat the fade and one end of the handle, put the limb out from the fade in your vise and give it a sideways tweak, pull it out of your vise and check your progress, heat and repeat as necessary. When you have it where it needs to be let it cool and you are good to go. You can do the same maneuver anywhere up and down the limb as well.

Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2019, 11:47:42 AM »
When I encounter a slight problem like yours I bend the handle 100% of the time and don't do wood removal. A 1/16" bend in the handle will move the tips an inch or so, I use dry heat.

You can heat the fade and one end of the handle, put the limb out from the fade in your vise and give it a sideways tweak, pull it out of your vise and check your progress, heat and repeat as necessary. When you have it where it needs to be let it cool and you are good to go. You can do the same maneuver anywhere up and down the limb as well.
Interesting
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Offline Mad Max

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Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 04:07:59 PM »
Man I am pumped. I never dreamed I'd be here.  It's got some issues to work on but I am so excited and proud of this. Sounds ridiculous I know but there is not a feeling this good anywhere around. Low brace baby!
Nothing clears a troubled mind like shooting a bow.
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Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 04:12:01 PM »
Interestingly enough while the string is way off if I rotate the handle in my hands 1/8 turn the string lines up perfectly. Conceivably I could just modify the handle shape any everything would line up pretty dang good.
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Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2019, 04:57:18 PM »
Little further along and the string is starting to line up with the additional wood I removed. More excited than a kid in a candy store.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 05:18:10 PM by Petrichor »
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Offline Mad Max

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2019, 05:15:28 PM »
 :thumbsup:
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Offline Forwardhandle

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2019, 05:29:39 PM »
 :thumbsup:
If you fear failure, you will never try ! But never except it!!

Offline Mad Max

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2019, 05:58:15 PM »
petrichor watch those youtubes, I think there are four of them on that bow.
good stuff
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Offline Petrichor

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2019, 06:00:10 PM »
petrichor watch those youtubes, I think there are four of them on that bow.
good stuff

Yes sir. I have watched them. Though I did talk to clay through messages and he uses dry heat exclusively now.
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Online Captain*Kirk

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2019, 08:19:28 PM »
You'll be flippin' sticks before you know it!
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Online Possum Head

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2019, 08:52:06 PM »
No where else in the world will you find a group of fellas that share your enthusiasm like right here. I’m elated for ya bro!

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Selfbow build along help needed.
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 10:18:21 AM »
I am seeing things in your tiller that need to be addressed before you go further than brace height.

You need to make a tillering gizmo and straighten out the flat places in your limbs.

I had a how to make one and use it tutorial to here but got banned one time and it was deleted. I have another over at the primitive archer site in the how to section that is still up.

Pretty simple, a 6" block of wood with a 5/16 hole drilled in the middle and a 1/2" hole drilled halfway through the block on top of the 5/16" hole. Knock a 5/16 nut down in the bottom of the 1/2" hole and screw a pencil in the nut.

Lets see if this works for a copy and paste the pictures probably won't be there.

USING THE TILLERING GIZMO


After floor tillering your bow, bend the bow slightly on your tillering tree or tillering stick, I start at about 3” of bend using the long string. Retract the pencil in the Gizmo and run the wood block up the bow’s belly and find the widest gap. Screw the pencil in the block to a point it is almost touching the bow’s belly at the point where you found the widest gap. It is best to start with a little wider gap between the pencil and limb than what is shown in the picture or you may mark the whole limb instead of just the highest spots. I change the angle the pencil has been sharpened to a very short angle and sand the tip of the pencil flat for the best results in marking the limb. This lets you work very slight bends.

 Run the Gizmo up the belly making sure it is centered on the limb. The
pencil will mark non bending areas that need wood removed.  Start on the long string; continue at brace and up to about 20” of draw. You do need to have a way to hold your bow string while you mark the limbs with the Gizmo.   

                                                                                                                                       


I have holes in my tillering tree and insert a 3” piece of dowel in one of the holes to hold the string with the limbs slightly bent while I mark the limbs with the gizmo.



                               Go slow, no more than ten scrapes on the marked areas of the limb, flex the limb 30 times and recheck. My bow limbs tend to be slightly round belly so the Gizmo only marks the top of the crown on the limbs belly. I scrape the marked area as well as the rest of the limb side to side to keep things even. You can get the limb bending perfectly this way. You will still have to eyeball bending in the fades but the rest of the limb will be perfectly tillered, hinges will be a thing of the past.

I adjust the gizmo one time on the long string and set it to the deepest bend on the weakest limb. I use this setting for both limbs. If you continually adjust the gizmo you will chase weak spots up and down your limb. One adjustment and hold this adjustment until you have removed enough wood to the point that can run the gizmo up both limbs without making a mark. As you increase draw length readjust the gizmo.

 

Make a few passes with the gizmo on your limb and the areas that need attention will be perfectly obvious. You can fine tune the tillering by closing the gap between the pencil and limb to almost nothing. At this point I like to use a cheap orbital sander to remove both wood and any tool marks that are left. With course sand paper, the sander will leave tiny swirls in the wood so I like 220 grit for my final tillering work and follow with a light hand sanding.

The gizmo doesn’t work in the fade out area of the riser so you will have to eyeball the bend in this area or put a flat board across the back of the bow in your tillering tree and watch the gap between the back of the bow and the board to see where the limb is bending.   

Tillering that once took me hours to get close  takes me about 45 minutes with the Gizmo and the end result is close to perfect.

Remember the key thing to proper tillering is using a scraper or sand paper for SLOW wood removal, no rasps or belt sanders.


Here is Roy's;





« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 10:26:47 AM by Eric Krewson »

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