Yep, another OL Tuning Question

[BobW]

OL's instructions (as far as I can remember) don't address the angle of impact to the target face (or shall I call it "nock left or right") for bare shafts, but only the correlation of location of bare shafts to fletched shafts (then field points to broadheads with both fletched).  Is there a point of time that you consider the bare shaft orientation to the target face?  I've read (perhaps elsewhere) where bareshaft shooting/evaluation is considered at long distances or even matching fletched shafts at 40+ yards.  I guess I'm uncertain because I wouldn't trust my bare shaft flight at that distance, even though i think I am somewhat "tuned" per the OL method.  Am i missing something here?
   
BobW

[vermonster13]

Two different methods of tuning. Nock can have a lot to do with release also and for most folks it isn't the best method of tuning. I would go with the groupings and tune from there. Other than consistent nock up or down which relates to nocking point, don't sweat it too hard. Other opinions will vary.

[BobW]

Thanks Dave.  I know it is likely thay my troubles are 90% form, but I'm just trying to eliminate/minimize the things that can be fixed due to equipment/set up.  Seems the best to do that because it is thus fewer variables to cause problems.  Yeah, its the engineer in me that over analyzes everything....    

BobW

[vermonster13]

Have fun with it. The rest will come.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

I'm exactly with Dave. I start close, but do all my final Extreme FOC bare shaft tuning at 40 meters - about 44 yards. At least for the Extreme FOC's (with filed points), when all is correct you should be able to shoot as well with the bare shafts at 40 meters as you can with the fletched shafts, and all to the same point of impact.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[R H Clark]

Dr Ashby is correct if you can shoot that well.Some guys can't hit a 6'x 6' target at 40 yards with well tuned fletched arrows,much less group fletched arrows and bareshafts together.

Bob
The nock direction method and OL's bareshaft planing method both show the same thing.For example, as a nock starts pointing left the shaft will plane to the right.Both show a weak shaft for a right hand shooter.

OL's is just more fool proof because not all targets will properly show the nock method.

[BMN]

Well said RH. I've always thought the two methods show the same thing. Just a different way of looking at it.

[hickstick]

"Some how, bad information has been passed down from archer to archer for many years on the correct method to bare shaft tune. Some might be familiar with, or heard of a technique of bare shaft testing that requires getting close to your target and analyzing nock left/right/up/down patterns for tuning purposes, that is not a good method and causes great confusion! The correct way is bare shaft "planing", or determining adjustments based on bare shaft groups in relation to identical fletched shafts at longer distances. "


from the 'bare shaft planning' section of his    website   ...

[Diamond Paul]

I'll concur with hickstick; unless you have the form of a shooting machine (i.e., no form flaws and perfect release), looking at nock right or left kick ain't gonna tell you a thing, and will probably steer you in the wrong direction.  Paul.

[BobW]

So you are telling me that if my groups are together (bare and fletched)- say all six arrows within a 4" to 5" circle at 15 yards (I'm no shooting ace), but the bare shafts are sitting at a 45 degree angle(horizontal - left kicked nock) to the target face, I'm good to go for now?

BobW

[Ken999]

yup...

Try shooting your bareshafts out to 30 yards...if you can't see any difference in POI at that range, I'd say your pretty close the correct spine.

[Bear Heart]

What a great website!  Thanks Hickstick

[O.L. Adcock]

"So you are telling me that if my groups are together (bare and fletched)- say all six arrows within a 4" to 5" circle at 15 yards (I'm no shooting ace), but the bare shafts are sitting at a 45 degree angle(horizontal - left kicked nock) to the target face, I'm good to go for now?

BobW"

Correct...The best shooters with the best tuned equipment can't shoot an arrow "straight"...Ignore the angles.

Back up...."good" groups aren't required to see trends..Say you back up untill you can barely keep all your arrows on a bale...Say 2-3 foot "group"...and your bare shafts most always miss the bale to the left...or low, or whatever... Where the bare shafts "average" is telling you what's wrong even though your "group" isn't very good...O.L.

[BobW]

Thanks OL (and every one else here)!

BobW

[Clem]

I'm really confused. I shoot a hill style longbow, 58 lbs at 29.5 inches of draw. My arrows are cut to 30 inches. My 65-70 spined bare shafts hit the bullseye, but at the afore mentioned 45 degree angle to the left, right handed shooter. Same shafts fletched fly straight and true. My 70-75 bare shafts fly straight and hit the target straight, so do the fletched ones, which shaft whoud I hunt with?

[The Whittler]

Clem, I'd say your bow can handle both.

[R H Clark]

Clem
If you use nock orientation you have to have a consistant target that is farily soft.You also have to shoot several bareshafts and take what the average is telling you.It's too easy to release one bad and get a bad nock direction reading.

If however most of your 65-70 shafts are striking nock left and your 70-75 shafts are straight,I would be willing to bet that if you back up far enough,thoes 65-70 shafts will be to the right of your fletched shafts.

[katman]

I think your 65-70 are on the verge of being weak and the 70-75 are right on if the spine is correct (if these are woodies than a check with a spine tester would be a good thing). Also, I think of bare shaft tune as there is a range in which that the bare shafts will hit with fletched shafts, the middle being perfect and either side still good but a little closer to weak or stiff. Like most I prefer my bare shaft to show slightly weak.
Another possibility is that your bow is close to center shot and handles a wider range of spine.

Try less weight on the point of the 65-70 and see what happens.

[SteveB]

Clem - you didn't say or make clear where the bare are grouping in relation to the fletched.