Custom longbow for a newbie?

[Vintorez]

Hi all,

I'm a compound archer looking to get into the trad game. I've been looking at getting a good quality custom bow, like a Toelke Whip/Super D or a Harvey Crowned Eagle, but I'm wondering if that would be a mistake for a newbie? Is a custom bow only for experienced shooters who have a set shooting style and choose the bow specifically for that? I'd ideally like a one piece longbow with a decent draw weight (maybe 45 lb or more - I currently shoot a 93 lb compound) rather than an ILF setup.

Thanks.

[Steelhead]

Custom longbows are not made specifically for experienced archers or archers with a certain shooting style in general.

But some longbows are shot a bit differently more based on grip style.Like a Hill style bow with its straight grip.

I think your looking at the Toelkes.There's nothing wrong with starting out with a custom longbow.The Toelke's have a few grip styles.The classic and standard with the thumb rest.The standard is typically more shapely.Some like the standard grip.Some prefer the classic.Maybe you get something that's silimlar to your compound that your familiar with for ease of transition.

It would be nice if you could try some bows out at trad shows and shoot many and come to some conclusions.Not always possible though.

Any well known custom bowyer is gonna build a nice bow and some less known make superb bows as well.Thier are also less expensive factory bows that are very suitable for a 1st bow and perform well.

If you choose the Toelke you can rest assured it will be a great bow.Its up to you to learn how to shoot it well.Forty Five pounds is a good starting weight for sure to learn on and it its plenty strong to hunt with.Toelke has a short wait time on custom orders.That may appeal to you.Thier are many other superb bows out their to ruminate on.

I would spend some time looking through the Sponsers list here on T-Gang and reviewing thier website and doing searches on various bowyers offering's and try and make an informed decision before you plunk down your cash. 

[Pat B]

Bows are inherently accurate. For a beginning trad archer I would suggest getting an inexpensive bow(there are plenty of them out there) to play with, to learn to shoot accurately. Go to as many trad events and shoot as many bows as you can. Find out if you prefer a longbow, recurve, R/D style or whatever. Then you can invest in a quality custom bow of your liking.
 Many folks prefer a recurve but after buying and shooting a recurve for a few years I realized I shot better with a longbow, actually a mild R/D Treadway bow. Recurves seem to be the faster style bows but for me less forgiving. My shooting was greatly improved with a more stable style bow and the mild R/D was the best bow for me. The only way to know is to shoot as many styles of bows as you can so you'll definitely know which style suits you and your style of shooting.

[McDave]

Pat B’s experience is typical, and my own experience was similar.  It is difficult to know which of the three main types of traditional bows will suit you best without trying them all for extended periods of time.  The three types are straight limbed longbows, reflex deflex longbows, and recurves, and they all shoot differently enough that most people eventually gravitate to one type or another.

A new custom bow costs north of $500, sometimes way north.  A used bow costs about half the price of a new custom bow.  Entry level factory bows that shoot almost as well as custom bows cost between $100-200.  I have bought many used bows, tried them for a while, and then resold them without taking much of a loss, other than the shipping.  A very few of them I will probably keep forever.  I have several entry level factory bows around for the use of my grandchildren or visitors.  They have gotten dinged up over the years, and I don’t care.  And of course I have more than my share of new custom bows that I cherish.

My advice to someone getting started is to play around with used or factory bows for a while until you know which direction you want to go.

[northener]

All good advice above.

Came from compound many years ago myself, since 1990 to be exact. My experience is the recurve grip is they easiest transition from compound, with the straight, dished or even locator grip of the longbow the most foreign and harder to get accustomed to. If your set on a longbow, look first at those with recurve style grip with that characteristic.  I’am still not totally comfortable with traditional grips of the Hill style longbow although I can shoot them fairly well.

My advice, buy used and go from there, especially if your right handed. Many out there. I switched to lefty coming off compound, so not as many in the used market.

[Captain*Kirk]

Just my opinion, but I would suggest not starting out with a custom bow, as what you will end up preferring may be miles from what you start with. Your own shooting style and needs will tell you what you prefer and do best with including draw weight, bow style, limb length bow weight, etc... so best not to overthink it and try to decide what you think you need beforehand. Most new archers and hunters generally outfox themselves.

[Steelhead]

Pavel
I see your from Australia.

Not sure what the traditional archery scene is like their in the Land Down Under?

Maybe you have some traditional Archery clubs or organizations you could look into thier? Maybe even some Bowyers their that you could contact and visit.Or traditional archery dealers where you could visit and shoot bows.I know their are other members here that are from Australia that you could hook up with possibly?

You might start a thread here reaching out to archers from your homeland and see if you get some responses.If their close you might be able to visit them and shoot some and exchange information/knowledge.

[RJonesRCRV]

I would also try to get with trad bow guy down there first, shoot different styles, and see what you like the most.  I started with a Samick Sage recurve with the high wrist, and thought that style was all I would like and ever want.  Then I shot a lightweight one-piece longbow with a fairly straight grip that allowed me to put my hand very close to the arrow shelf, and now that is what I prefer.  If you can swing the shipping costs, try some different lower price factory bows.  Maybe you will love one of those and be content.  Even if a bow is custom made with the highest quality materials and craftsmanship, if it isn't right for you, then it isn't right for you.

[Steelhead]

Here are some Australian websites that cater to traditional archery products and bows

Also one organization that seems very good to contact:Traditional Archery Australia Organization.

www.traditionalarcheryaustralia.org
www.abbeyarchery.com
www.ozhuntingandbows.com
www.archeryshop.com
www.ausbow.com

[Wudstix]

Pavel;


Good advice above.  I started with a used Damon Howatt Hunter recurve and wish I'd never let it go.  Since have moved to mainly longbow, but still go back to the one who brought me to the dance, so to speak.  Many bowyers have a try before yo buy option, might not have the exact bow you want, but one close.  Easier with the mid range weights.
          ,

[Vintorez]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

Unfortunately I shoot lefty, which really limits what bows I can try out and what I can buy used. I used to be a member of a club here, but most shooters I've seen use compounds or Olympic style recurves instead of stickbows, so I haven't been able to try anything out apart from some really light weight training recurves. I'll have a look at some other clubs and see if it's different.

Most of the trad bows for sale here are Bear products and can be pretty pricey and approach the cost of a custom bow. For example a Bear Montana is around AU$670 and an AuSable is $830, while a Crowned Eagle Longbow by Harvey Archery or an Omega bow (two of the customs I was looking into) would be about AU$800 including shipping. A Toelke by comparison would be more than AU$1300.

So I guess my options are (1) inexpensive factory bow (Samick Sage and the like), (2) more expensive factory bow like the Bears or (3) a custom. I like to buy good quality stuff that lasts for years so I'm a bit wary of cheap alternatives, as usually I've found you get what you pay for. However I'm clueless in the trad archery world so all advice is appreciated.

[Captain*Kirk]

I would personally go for option 1) or 2) to start out with. The Sage (or ILF equivalent) is a perfectly good starter bow, and you can get limbs in varying weights to move up as you choose. Coming from the compound world, please don't make the newbie mistake of figuring that you shoot a 70# compound so a 60# Sage should be about right...60# @ 28 is 60# where a 70# compound at 28 with 85% let-off is...10.5#. start light and work your way up as your strength and shooting form dictates. If you go with option 2) and choose Bear factory bow, you should remember this as well, but not knowing what you will feel comfortable drawing and holding makes buying ANY one-piece bow sort of a crap shoot at this point. My advice would be start out with option 1) and then decide what your style and draw weight should be...AFTER learning to shoot it.

[Petrichor]

Honestly. My opinion is to get a production bow like a bear. While not as pretty to look at as these works of art some people put out they are solid shooters. The advantage of a production bow is they companies make thousands of them and usually have quite of bit of research and development in them. A company like bear for instance can make so many more test models than an individual bowyer. As a guy who has a few customs I shoot them just as well as my production bows. Only difference is my production bows cost less and may not be as pretty.

I'd start with a production bow... I find myself going back that route. Reputable companies also wont bat an eye at replacing a bow if something goes wrong. Again they make a ton of them.

[Vintorez]

To make this decision even harder, Harvey Archery just offered US$100 off their customs at the moment, bringing the base cost down to US$390 for the first three customers who order. More expensive than a Samick, but right around the price of a Bear Montana or Bearpaw Slick Stick.

[Petrichor]

To make this decision even harder, Harvey Archery just offered US$100 off their customs at the moment, bringing the base cost down to US$390 for the first three customers who order. More expensive than a Samick, but right around the price of a Bear Montana or Bearpaw Slick Stick.

Never heard of them...

Slick stick has a lifetime warranty and they shoot awesome. I gave mine to my brother to get him started.

You might eat it in shipping  bit. Look at places like rms gear. I bought a 1970 bear tiger cat that I still use for 200 bucks. Might cost you a bit more in shipping but that's it. A step up from sage, the company ragim (Italian company) makes inexpensive bows that are wonderful to shoot.  I also suspect you could get both a black hunter recurve and longbow to your door for less than the price of that custom and really start to hone in on what you shoot best.  It took me several bows to figure out that I shoot a  reflex deflex longbow the best. Bears have pretty good resell value also. 

I googled Harvey archery. There were a few glowing reviews but really not much. Literally every post on this page has said the same thing though buy used (lots of options if you look even for leftys) or buy inexpensive production.

As far as inexpensive customs Omega makes a great bow so I hear. I can attest that mike from maddog does as well. Ordering a custom at this point is like throwing a dart in the dark and hoping to hit the sweet spot. May work out for you.... may not... 

[Vintorez]

Thanks guys. I think I'll go with a factory bow for now until I learn to shoot properly. It'll be more of a known quantity and easier to resell if I need to. I don't know exactly what I'll go with yet, but I'm really drawn to one piece longbows for whatever reason and I've been looking quite seriously at the Slick Stick or Quick Stick. Nothing is decided yet though - Samick, Ragim, Bear, etc are all in the mix.

I don't have a problem with ILF or recurves but simple longbows really call to me. I think it's because I already have a fancy expensive compound so I want to go completely in the opposite direction and just shoot the simplest stick I can find. Eventually I hope to go all the way with that and maybe make my own selfbows. But that's way, way down the line at this point.

[blacktailbob]

Being a lefty myself finding bows to try is next to impossible. Also being a recurve guy longbows are even more scare to try.
That being said, since you mentioned getting a factory bow I've read where a lot of guys really like their Bear Montanas.

Let us know how it works out.

ALSO, I keep waiting to see a LEFTY bow pass around, hopefully before I die.

[gregg dudley]

I started with a custom bow and do not regret it.  The only thing that I think is a real factor to influence your decision is bow weight.  Shooters rarely are satisfied with the first weight bow they buy.  They tend to overbow themselves or go real light and wish they had more.  That often results in a need/desire for a different bow pretty quickly.

[Wudstix]

Love those limb lamination's.  3Rivers has some good starter bows, look at the Bodnik.     

[OkKeith]

Pavel-

I have (and have had) both production-made bows and custom-made bows. The truth as I see it is... a good bow shoots good regardless of cost or fancy woods. All the advice above is on the mark as far as my opinions.

There are A LOT of good, serviceable bows on the world wide market. With a quick Amazon search for "Left-handed, recurve bow" I had several pages of options. It might be easier for you to order a bow from that source.

Nothing wrong with a one piece bow, I have several but I do find that for all my hunting that involves any sort of travel I always grab one of my take downs. They are much easier to pack so that they can't get damaged. A take down also has the added option of having various limb sets with different poundage. You could start with a set of 40-45# limbs and then step-up the weight in order to hunt bigger game (I have read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos on all the BIG animals you can hunt in Australia!).

I don't know anyone who hunts with Traditional archery gear who only has one bow! I am sure there are those out there with the amazing restraint to own only one but for me, part of the fun is having to stand in front of my bow rack and figure out which gal to take to the dance. Welcome to the obsession that is single string archery!
Keith