Broadhead Tuning - Wood arrows

[Kbob]

Hi All,

I made the switch to wood arrows after deer season this fall. Great flight, loving the extra weight, shooting well all around with field points and small game points. I set up some broadheads this week for turkeys which is a legal requirement in MT, I know you can shoot turkeys with judo's but not allowed here. I cannot seem to get consistent flight! My arrows have been bareshaft tuned, 4" left wing helical on cedars. Ace broadheads. 70# 58" bear grizzly bow. I am tempted to revert back to the old 2219's but thought I should reach out here before making the jump back.

Open to suggestions, given the current world excitement level I would love to make what I have work before buying new shafts or broadheads.

Thanks!

[streamguy]

I usually align the 2 blade broadhead with the cock feather on the arrow, but not everyone does - and I'm not sure it should matter.
 
I think the most common problem is getting the heads improperly aligned on the taper.  if the blades aren't parallel with the shaft, you will definitely have trouble getting consistent flight.  you can check for alignment in a number of ways: spinning them on a thumbnail, checking them in a jig or spin tester, or just sighting down the shaft with the blade vertical.

I'm sure others will weigh in, but that would be my first check. 

[McDave]

Most people I’ve read about on TradGang over the years seem to use 5” feathers when they hunt with Broadheads on wood arrows.  A lot of people use 5” feathers with broadheads on carbon and aluminum too.  Probably helps counter the steering effect of broadheads and maybe the fact that wood arrows are usually not completely straight.

[Wudstix]

How heavy a broad head you shooting?  Personally, I have found that 160 grain and heavier work best, from my mid 60# bows, also have never tried fletching shorter than 5".
 

[Kbob]

160 grain, same as field points. The broadheads seem straight to the eye but I don't have a spin tester, maybe I can build one out of things I have around the garage. How does the thumbnail trick work? Good call on the 5" Fletch, I have some around. I can re-fletch a couple and see if it makes a difference

[Wudstix]

I spin arrows on Plexiglas or other smooth surfaces to eyeball for any wobble.
 

[Deno]

I spin on plexiglass also.  5 inch shield on Surewood shafts (75-80 spine).  190 gr Tusker points and broadheads mounted vertical.

Deno

[Orion]

Very likely is a spine issue. What is the draw weight at your draw length? If you're drawing 70#@28, and your Grizzly has a low stretch string, with 160 grain points, you'll need at least an 80# spine in a wood shaft, 85# would be better. If you don't know the spine of your arrows, you really have no way of knowing whether that might be the problem. BTW, 2219s are spined at about 95#. It's difficult to find wood in that high a spine.  Though field points might shoot decently on an underspined arrow, broadheads usually won't.

The newer Grizzlys are 58-inch bows, if I remember correctly.  If you're drawing more than 28 inches, it can be difficult to get off the string cleanly and consistently, so the broadheads might be showing you a form problem as well. I think it's a spine issue though.

With enough spine, 4-inch fletching is enough, though certainly can use 5-inch fletch.

[BAK]

And we're assuming the broadheads are the same weight as the field tips?  It does sound like spine or alignment issues.

[Kbob]

I think Orion nailed it, 65-70 spine arrows... 30" draw. Could be form too as I'm no expert but I've been shooting the bow for a couple of years with good results. I had no idea a 2219 was that firm, just what Rod Keller told me I needed. Thanks everyone! If anyone wants some nice arrows and has 2219's to trade let me know

[woodchucker]

I always mount my broadheads horizontal, and use 5" feathers. Never had any flight issues

[Wudstix]

Yup, I usually add 10-15 lbs of spine above bow weight for 160-200 grain heads.
 

[Silent footed]

5 inch shield on Surewood shafts (75-80 spine).  190 gr Tusker points and broadheads mounted vertical.

Deno

What type of bow and weight at your draw length, just curious. This is similar to the combo I'm considering for my newer bow for later this year. That's why I'm asking.

[Petrichor]

X3 Orion.  I'll add that I tune bareshaft and then broadhead tune after. You should always broadhead tune as the last step of arrow tuning no matter what initial method you use. Feathers will have no problem masking a spine issue and you may even get a field point to fly ok bareshaft with a spine issue. Broadheads magnify tuning and form issues.

With that said there are two things to consider. One, if broadheads magnify an issue the actual issue could me smaller than you think. What I'm saying is if you are already tuned bareshaft, you might not be that far off. Make small adjustments and go slow. Two, forgive me if you already know how to do this but pro tip because a lot of bareshaft tuners do this.... never bareshaft a broadhead.

I broadhead tune by shooting groups of two broadheads and two field points at a target and see how they land in relation to each other. Never make adjustments on one group. Shoot several to confirm results.  Clay Hayes has a great arrow tuning method on youtube that covers tuning all the way through including broadheads and is worth a watch even if you are an experienced tuner. He doesnt bareshaft and honestly I'm starting to move away from it.

Lastly, broadhead adjustments and tuning have to done to every kind of arrow not just wood arrows.  Shoot what your comfortable with but I find that fixing issues and adjusting wood is so much easier than other materials. The other side of that coin is that you must tune each batch of arrows you get, whereas you get em flying good with carbon or aluminum you can lock everything in. Tuning each batch will get you really experience in tuning quick.

Wood offers a feel that is unlike any other material. Even though I've had my share of issues, I doubt I'll go back. I hand straighten my arrows when needed and regularly pick off squirrels with my woodies.  They can be tuned pretty well. Oh and I'm crazy and use 3 inch feathers.

If you are getting great bareshaft and field point groups you might only require a small adjustment to arrows to make big change. If getting weak indicating arrows cut down no more than 1/4 at a time since you are already tuned. Stiff might just need a tad of weight added.  Fly tying wire is really good for this because it's small you can weigh it easily and can get right in there with hot melt.  Hopefully you can make those arrows work. In the future with a bow that heavy I'd consider shooting spruce or fir because I find it is a little more resistant to the bareshaft tuning process.


Best of luck!
D

[tmattson]

If a person is making the switch from carbon to wood, is selecting similar spined wood arrows a good starting point? Assuming of course staying with same weight up front, for example on carbon have ,80 grain insert and 125 grain point, and on wood go with ~200 grain glue on?

[Petrichor]

If a person is making the switch from carbon to wood, is selecting similar spined wood arrows a good starting point? Assuming of course staying with same weight up front, for example on carbon have ,80 grain insert and 125 grain point, and on wood go with ~200 grain glue on?

Honestly I havent used carbon in so long I wouldn't know. Usually we can pick a pretty good spine group for wood just based on draw weight, draw length, and point weight.

[Kbob]

Silent footed, 70# 58" bear Grizzly, 30" draw.

Petrichor, Thanks for the tips, no I have not tried bareshafting broadheads. I will attempt to shorten the arrows up a little and see if that fixes things. I agree with what you are saying about wood up until this point. I have been surprising myself with the squirrel shots I can pull off with these.

I also have some heavier spine lodgepole shafts I may try today, updates to follow. If I really get fancy I'll post some pictures of my results too.

[Petrichor]

Silent footed, 70# 58" bear Grizzly, 30" draw.

Petrichor, Thanks for the tips, no I have not tried bareshafting broadheads. I will attempt to shorten the arrows up a little and see if that fixes things. I agree with what you are saying about wood up until this point. I have been surprising myself with the squirrel shots I can pull off with these.

I also have some heavier spine lodgepole shafts I may try today, updates to follow. If I really get fancy I'll post some pictures of my results too.

Looking forward to pictures! Good luck.

[Zwickey-Fever]

Carbons, aluminum and wood arrows are all arrows but truly different animals. and if you decide to go entirely with wood, you will definitely will be needing a spin tester for alignment and I also suggest getting a Ace spin tester for woodies. You can straighten woodies by flexing them with the palm of your hand. As for a spin tester, you can either make yourself one  or get one off 3 Rivers for 20-35 bucks. I spin test every broadhead whether its on carbon, wood or aluminum. Best of luck.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

Great advice from all I run my wood arrow a little over spine and my Broadheads are set at 2 and 8 o'clock i have shot them with the blades at 12 o'clock and horizontal with no problems.