New Bow confusion

[JAH518]

Looking for suggestions of what I'm missing.
I recently purchased a new custom hybrid longbow and having some unusual experiences.
First this brand of bow is known to be very quiet but I can't seem to get it to not sound like it's being dry fired. I've worked with the brace in 1/4" from 7 to 8.5 resulting slight changes. I've tried arrow weight from 9-12gpp, carbon, and wood with slight changes in sound. I've adjusted nocks from tight to loose "falling off the string" with little to no change.

Second, I've never had to shoot with a arm guard although I usually wear one. Since working with this bow I'm destroying my leather arm guard.

Last but not least, I'm getting the string scrapping my face at release. I've tried tabs, gloves, bare fingers and even an old string release I used with a compound years ago. all with the same result, string slapping my face right at release.

I just don't know what's going on, I'll switch to any of my other bows longbow or recurve and all the issues are gone. I've put myself on film switching between many bows to check if form is the problem but can't see any difference.

[Petrichor]

I would contact Bowyer and ask some questions. Rarely would a bowyer that has a good rep want one of their customers having a bad experience.

[Tedd]

String type and serving can make a huge difference. Also the type of silencers you use. What was good for a big brace height recurve might not work for a longbow. You may need a heavy arrow to calm it down. Heavy silencers can make your bow slap you terribly. No silencers can make you not want to shoot it again.
We need some more details.
 Also, and I am not saying this is at all true in your case but some bows get way overrated on here. I have owned and sold one or two of those.

[nineworlds9]

12gpp wasnt a lot quieter than 9????  Have you considered that your arrow spine could be wrong, causing the arrow to strike the riser on release and be the culprit behind the loud report?  Also as was said string construction, material, and silencer type and placement can make a big difference in perceived sound.  That being said you claim no form issue but string slapping face and arm guard sounds like form to me, not every bow likes being held exactly the same depending on grip shape and brace height.  More info is needed on poundage, arrow specs, string type and material.

[slowbowjoe]

This'll be an interesting puzzle to figure out, there's a lot out of whack there! Couple guesses so far: As far as the sound, I'm thinking like nineworlds that you could be shooting too stiff a spine, and hear it bouncing off the strike plate. Been there and done that a few times. And I think lots of folks overestimate the spine needed for the high performance hybrids.
As far as the string slapping your armguard, and worse, your face... sounds like your bow arm might be over extended.
What poundage is the bow, and what's your draw length? What spines have you been shooting with it?

[GCook]

I had a similar experience with noise on one.  The bowyer did his best to help me but although I shot the bow well the noise made it a target only bow and I traded it off. 

[Alexander Traditional]

I think ninesworld is on to something myself. Spine could be way off,but that wouldn't affect hitting your arm or face. I have some bows I just can't hold right,and hit myself worse than normal. I have also played with not drawing some bows back as far than other bows,but that can get into problems with form. I just shoot some bows not pulled back as far as other designs.

[flntknp17]

I'll be interested to follow this thread.......I have over 40 trad bows and have shot all my life, mostly for competitive purpose, but also hunting and really like the gear/tuning side of the sport.  I have one single bow (a high-performance modern longbow) that shoots little tiny groups and performs amazing......but it slaps my arm SO hard that I don't enjoy shooting it as much as I should.  I have not been able to figure it out.  I have shot multiple other examples from the same bowyer without issue.  It is a mystery that I can't figure out.  I never have worn an armguard.....but I had to get one just for this bow.

I may try building a lighter string for it next....

Matt

[Bisch]

I have found thru personal experience that string silencer placement can make the string slap your arm. I always put my silencers the length of my T-square away from both ends. While replacing a string once (and after being told by my bowyer that this system was supposed to be quieter) I decided to try the 1/4,1/3 placement for the silencers. I started slapping the heck out of my arm. After a couple weeks, I couldn’t stand it anymore, and ripped the silencers out and put new ones in at the old spot. Yep, no more arm slapping!!!! So, moving the string silencers is something you might try to alleviate the arm slapping problem.

Bisch

[McDave]

Bear in mind, guys, that he doesn't have this problem with his other bows, so I think we can rule out form problems IN GENERAL.  However, I have had occasions where I have hit my face with the string or the nock, and after a few whacks, I get gun-shy.  I begin flinching to avoid the sting, and generally tensing up whenever i shoot.  I probably do things with a bow like that that I don't ordinarily do.  When I get into a situation like that, I have to retrain myself to come to full draw, relax, and shoot normally rather than do a bunch of things that only makes the situation worse.  Forget about anchoring for a while; hold the string far enough away from your face that you know you're not going to hit it, bend your bow arm and rotate your bowhand out enough so you won't hit your forearm, and make sure you're shooting that particular bow with the same good form otherwise that you shoot your other bows with, and see if it sounds any different than it does now.

[Orion]

I'm thinking the spine may be off as well.  Could just as easily be underspined as overspined, if you're shooting a new, high performance hybrid, cut to or past center with a low stretch string.  If the bow is much shorter than you're used to shooting, that could also contribute to the problems. If you torque the bow, either vertically or horizontally, the effect will be greater with a shorter bow. Loosening your grip would help compensate. Too, it may be more difficult to get off the string cleanly, with the string hanging up on the fingers occasionally. 

[MnFn]

Good suggestions above.

But, you said the this bow is destroying your arm guard.  That could be part of the noise you are hearing.

[JAH518]

Ok lot of suggestions and replies with questions so let's see if I can reply to most in one post.
Bow specs - 56" 44lb at my 27.75"
Arrow specs and tested arrow specs. Before I started trying to tune I shot 60-70 shot to learn the bow and set a general nock point.
I started with full length GTT 600 and 150 up front, it showed Very weak so trimmed .25 off at a time all the way down to 29" still showed weak. "I want to shoot 29.75 arrows". I then switch to GTT 500 and 150 up front, once I got the 500's to 29.5 they flew great. I then adjusted nock point and tied it down. "Arrow flight is great, but the noice is crazy loud. I then tried bare shafting 400's and 340's and every weight combo up front I could manage with what I have available. At one point I was up to 268gr point on 400's, they flew well but came off the outer edge of the shelf. This is when I switched to wood, 5 different spines and a total of 32 different lengths tried all with 150gr up front. The best flying wood set up was 29" Surewood 5/16 45-50's and fly like lasers but loud.

This not my first hybrid short longbow, I have 3 others a 52" and 2-54" all dead quite and all within 2 pounds of each other. Those 3 shoot 29.75 500's with 150's like a dream. But only like 50-55 woods.

String is the custom string sent and made by the bowyer with cat whisper installed by bowyer.

As for making adjustments to the way I grip the bow or how my bow arm is extended. Yes I've played around with this and yes I can make the bow not strike my face and arm but only at a sacrifice of form. I'm not new to shoot traditional archery, I've been shooting traditional equipment for over 35 years. By no means is my form perfect or repeated exactly the same every time. it is good enough to know something weird is going with this. When you can shoot 18 other bows with the same form and none of this happens.

[JAH518]

Good suggestions above.

But, you said the this bow is destroying your arm guard.  That could be part of the noise you are hearing.

I know you're wright some of the sound is from that. However, the main sound I'm hearing is a ringing twang. The same sound I get when I pluck the string an inch or so but MUCH louder when shooting. It's actually loud enough that my ears ring after shooting it for a bit in my work shop at night. I hit golf balls in my work shop and that doesn't make my ears ring.

[Alexander Traditional]

Unless that bow is cut past center,I can't imagine with the arrows cut down that short,and that light of point weight that those arrows aren't stiff. If they are flying good though I would just work on ways to get it more quiet. It seems like the .600 should have worked well.

[Orion]

OK, two more guesses and I'll throw in the towel.  First is string material. The low stretch strings generally make a higher pitched sound than dacron, and some are just louder on some bows than others.  That could contribute to the noise problem, but shouldn't affect the nose or arm hitting. I've found, too, that shooting indoors, the sound seems louder than outdoors. 

Second is tiller.  Did you check the tiller?  if that's way off, the limbs aren't coming to rest at the same time at the end of the shot, nor are they balanced anywhere throughout the shot.  It could contribute to both greater noise, more hand shock and even more side-to-side string oscillation.

[JAH518]

Unless that bow is cut past center,I can't imagine with the arrows cut down that short,and that light of point weight that those arrows aren't stiff. If they are flying good though I would just work on ways to get it more quiet. It seems like the .600 should have worked well.

I was thinking 600 would have been the ones too but they showed nock left BAD left all the way down to 29".  500's full length with the 150 was slightly nock right.

[JAH518]

OK, two more guesses and I'll throw in the towel.  First is string material. The low stretch strings generally make a higher pitched sound than dacron, and some are just louder on some bows than others.  That could contribute to the noise problem, but shouldn't affect the nose or arm hitting. I've found, too, that shooting indoors, the sound seems louder than outdoors. 

Second is tiller.  Did you check the tiller?  if that's way off, the limbs aren't coming to rest at the same time at the end of the shot, nor are they balanced anywhere throughout the shot.  It could contribute to both greater noise, more hand shock and even more side-to-side string oscillation.

I haven't though of checking tiller, I'll do that this evening. Should I also have someone measure tiller when I'm at full draw? Would this tell me anything?

[Steelhead]

Sounds like you have tried about everthing any sensible experienced archer would try.

Too have that much noise is weird and the severe string slap is unusual.I have had some bows have a tendancy to bite my forarm a bit.But nothing severe.I typically would raise the brace height for that  problem a bit.

Just for an experiment try rotating your bow arm out a bit more and bend your arm a bit more (Kinda hill style) and see what happens to the noise without the string slap?

I was thinking it might be out of tiller as well and the limbs are not recovering as they should.

[Friend]

Would consult with the Bowyer for his recommendations.