A question for those who have made a takedown sleeve

[mtblucas]

So I decided to include a fiberglass takedown sleeve in my most recent bow build. The sleeve came out pretty well except that there is a very slight amount of play in the handle. When shooting the bow I can feel an annoying little knock every time I draw an arrow. The tenon seems like it is shaped correctly and should be a tight fit. I think this issue is a result of the fiberglass flexing slightly when under a load, creating a little wiggle room for the tenon to move a bit.

I have attempted to tighten the joint using masking tape in various locations on the tenon. A small piece on the belly side of the tenon makes for a very tight fit when unstrung and alleviates the play in the handle when shooting. After ten to fifteen shots, however, the masking tape is compressed enough to allow a little play to develop again. I am trying to come up with a permanent solution and am asking for advice. I am thinking I have two options:

Option 1:  I can apply release agent to the tenon and then simply apply fiberglass resin into the belly side of the sleeve and stick the tenon in to cure. Hopefully this will be enough to keep everything tight in there. I am worried this may not work long-term since there is no fiberglass to reinforce the resin. On the other hand, it would be a pretty thin layer of resin so it may be strong enough on its own. This would be simpler than option 2.

Option 2:  I can proceed with option 1 except I can add a very thin piece of fiberglass in the sleeve as well. This may cause problems because I don’t know that I can get fiberglass thin enough. I was thinking maybe some thin linen can be substituted for the glass? Or I could sand some of the tenon to make room for the thicker glass but I prefer to not risk creating any other fit issues with reshaping the tenon.

I’m sorry this is a long post but I keep going back and forth with these two ideas. Does anyone have any input or suggestions? Can you think of anything else that may work? Thanks for reading all of this! Any ideas are much appreciated.

Matt

[Flem]

I have no experience with making a takedown sleeve, but I do have experience with fitment issues.
You could take and wrap the tenon with fiberglass veil, which is extremely thin material. It takes just a little bit of epoxy to soak it. Once it's cured, you could sand it to fit.

[Crooked Stic]

The fact that you can get that tape in there tells me it is really loose. The front to belly taper on the tenon is critical. needs to be parallel or no more than .002 taper the sides can be more. On the very top of your tenon the very point needs to be flattened. If you have movement check the belly side where the sleeve and tenon meet and be sure there is a slight gap there as not to cause your clicking sound. If the fit really bothers you then do what Flem said or grind the old sleeve off recheck your tenon taper and re wrap it. My pic shows the tenon flattened on top end.

[BigJim]

 Try putting Vaseline in the joint. Most all 2 piece sleeves will make a little click if the socket is dry... This is the case with every 2 piece builder I know.
I rarely have to add to it, but as long as there is a scant amount in there is will be quiet.
I send a can of "wax" .. really thick Vaseline from a closet flange seal (toilet bowl ring).
BIgJim

[mtblucas]

Thank you all for your input.

You could take and wrap the tenon with fiberglass veil, which is extremely thin material.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try the veil fabric if I end up adding glass into the sleeve if nothing else works.

The fact that you can get that tape in there tells me it is really loose. The front to belly taper on the tenon is critical. needs to be parallel or no more than .002 taper the sides can be more. On the very top of your tenon the very point needs to be flattened. If you have movement check the belly side where the sleeve and tenon meet and be sure there is a slight gap there as not to cause your clicking sound. If the fit really bothers you then do what Flem said or grind the old sleeve off recheck your tenon taper and re wrap it. My pic shows the tenon flattened on top end.

Although it doesn’t show in my pics, the tip of the tenon is rounded a little. I didn’t flatten it like yours. I may take it to the sander and flatten it more.

I already plan to make the next tenon perfectly parallel. I don’t know what my actual taper is but I think it could be better.

Try putting Vaseline in the joint.

Thanks for this tip BigJim. I will try this first. I actually used Vaseline as the release agent but cleaned it off as best I could after the build. I will reapply.

BTW, thanks for your t/d sleeve tutorial on YouTube BigJim!

[BigJim]

I doubt the tip not being flattened is an issue. I know I have done a couple without flattening it. I am also super critical about the belly being parallel to the back. My TDs are within .001 either way, meaning I will leave mine tapered the wrong direction if it's within .001 or the right direction within .001.
Taper from side to side is no big thing... infact if it is too parallel, they can be a sumbit to pull apart. I do try to keep them somewhat close.

In all these years and over 1200 + TD's, I can honestly say that I have never re cast one because of fit, but I have had two failures this year.. both bows were over 8 years old. One was a 57 lb... I believe 11 years old and around my first TD I ever built. I did not put enough reinforcement in the riser. I don't remember doing it, but all it had was two strips of clear fiberglass used like an I-beam. The other, I over ground. I didn't use the carbon strip inside so I could tell how deep my grind was.

If you watched my TD videos, I have quit using the tooth pics and no longer do the miter cut with the table saw.

I now just cut it in two with a bandsaw and align them back up by eye. Another thing I did that has made sanding the tenon parallel much easier was to get a block wider than my tenon and apply sandpaper to it. I use paper with self adhering tape so it can be easily replaced. This eliminates the possibility of making the tenon hour glass shaped.

Good luck, BigJim

[mtblucas]

Apologies for the late response here. I haven’t had a chance until today to do anything with my bows. I lubed up the tenon with some vaseline and shoved it into the socket. Some vaseline squeezed out so I know there is plenty in there. I’m happy to say that this easy fix solved the problem! There is no more noise and the little knock I could feel is no longer there.

That’s a bummer about the two handles that failed BigJim. Hopefully it was just those two that have problems. I built mine just like you did in your videos. I used your carbon and resin dye. It seems very solid and looks great. I was originally planning on wrapping the fiberglass with some sort of wrap but I actually like the look of the sanded fiberglass. I was wondering if you can get any other dye colors besides black?

Thanks for the help!

[Crooked Stic]

I have used Trans tint. I think any leather dye would work.