New Trad Hunter - Any Nuggets Of Wisdom?

[Friend]

There are many possible options yet you will be restricted to shafts over 30 ½”s.

Achieving EFOC  with long shafts can be a little challenging.

One very lethal possibility, if I may suggest, should be in the ball park.

BE Carnivore 400…~30 7/8”s….3x4” fletch..100 gn insert…250 gn point…~28.7% EFOC..~585 gn total…

[slowbowjoe]

Lumen, welcome. And, you really, really,  should take Friend up on his offer to help you out.

[Paul Fithian]

Good advice posted above.

I am less than a year into a similar journey from compounds. I had a lot of frustration with accuracy until I watched “The Push” on YouTube and set my bows up with a 3-under fixed crawl.

Bagged a doe in late January with a 45# Omega Original longbow and acquired a couple of vintage Wing recurves, 45# Red Wing Hunter (1963) and 47# Thunderbird (1967).

I shoot at a 3D Rinehart buck target almost every day, I am now very accurate inside of 20 yards. Favorite bow is the Red Wing Hunter, everything about it feels just right.

In all three bows, I am using full length 400 spine Beman ICS Bowhunter pro arrows with 250 grain tips, 546 grain total. These chrono at 150-160 FPS depending on the bow. Slowest is the Omega, arrow was a clean pass through on the doe I shot with it.

Leave one of your arrows unfletched and tune it to your bow/form for straight flight by adjusting point weight and/or length. I was able to tune with point weight. It will also define the right nock height, which is crazy high to get level flight with a fixed crawl setup. That way your broadheads will land at the same spot as field points.

Good luck with your journey and hunting.

[hawkeye n pa]

Welcome and enjoy.  Stick with one bow for awhile. IMHO  In the end it's the archer more than the bow, but all them bows do look great.

[madmaxthc]

  Work on form and don’t shoot to exhaustion. 

This.

Took me a while to realize it, and I always have to force myself to stop. I am the kind of guy who could shoot the whole day at the same target without getting bored, but when you start using your shoulder, neck, or biceps muscles, it is time to stop. Ignoring it led me to pains and to lost/broken arrows.

Thank you Wudstix for the post

[madmaxthc]

Also, I have just read your second post.  Good luck with Grad School, it is one of the toughest things I've done in my life. Remember to schedule time with your family and friends, and whenever you feel in a corner with no way out, say something about it. Seek your colleagues' advice. Don't isolate yourself, it will save you a lot of pain.

Archery wise, it is great that you have a piece of land. I find that training regularly, even just for 15 minutes, but multiple times per week, will do better on your accuracy than shooting more rarely but for longer sessions. Just my two cents.

And welcome to Trad Gang   

[Petrichor]

   my advice is keep at it. Takes time to develop good form and consistency. 6 seasons nothing but squirrels here. But I'm keeping at it. 

Hello LUMEN...I am located in western KY...Slaugthers, KY...~2' 35"s away(~164 miles)

It should be worth your while to visit or even stay a couple of days...I have plenty of arrows to get you in the ball park for specs, have worked successfully with many traditional archers from entry level to world class and live on my farm which is developed specifically for hi quality deer management...note:planning to have 14 foodplots this year which may be of particular interest since you have just acquired your own property.

[LUMEN]

I wanted to apologize yet again for a slow response. School is kicking my butt and I'm preparing for finals next week. I think my thesis is done but I can't help but re-read it entirely too often. Thank you all for all the kind words and advice it's much appreciated.

3Rivers Archery up here in Gods country sells a test kit of arrows you may want to get. Give them a call. Very knowledgeable, very helpful. Just click the link up top.

Thanks for the advice! I'll have to check out that test kit. I think they have a retail store as well don't they? Would probably be worth the drive to check out their shop in person.

I would plan on 400 spine arrows with your draw, and desire to load up front weight.  I'm pretty confident that 340 will be too heavy.

A couple of examples:
My two favorite bows are a 57# recurve and a 56# longbow at my 28" draw.  On those bows my favorite arrow is a 30.5" Beman ICS 400 with 100 gr brass insert and 225 gr broadhead.  Total weight comes in about 620-630 grains.  I've tried 340s and had to go almost full length with around 400 grains on the front.

I just started working on a 47lb longbow and it is tuning up nicely with a 500 spine CX heritage at 29.25" with ~200 grains on the front.  Total weight is about 510 grains.  If I want more weight, I can run a length of vinyl tubing in the shaft from nock to insert which brings it to 660 gr (haven't shot that yet - just experimenting).

I highly recommend downloading and becoming familiar with this doc.  http://www.acsbows.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/tuninglongbowsandrecurves.pdf

Since I shoot carbons, one of my best investments was an arrow saw for tuning the arrows, and a good assortment of field points weighing 145-250 grains.  A well tuned arrow is key to accuracy and building confidence.

Thanks so much for the advice & info! I'll print out that document and read it carefully. I've already got the arrow saw but I'll definitely pick up a variety of field point weights as well. Tuning on my wheel bow was pretty dang easy but I know there's no comparison with a tradbow.

I shoot .600 spine out of my 45 - 50# bows,  but I only draw 27". You might consider picking up a cheap used stickbow of similar specs to practice with all summer instead of waiting until the season is upon you.

I'm a bit strapped for cash between school and the 8 month old but I'll see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestion! I'd like to get some practice in before the season; I won't hunt with the bow if I'm not feeling confident in placing an ethical shot so hopefully I can pick something up locally.

Hello LUMEN...I am located in western KY...Slaugthers, KY...~2' 35"s away(~164 miles)

It should be worth your while to visit or even stay a couple of days...I have plenty of arrows to get you in the ball park for specs, have worked successfully with many traditional archers from entry level to world class and live on my farm which is developed specifically for hi quality deer management...note:planning to have 14 foodplots this year which may be of particular interest since you have just acquired your own property.

Friend, I would greatly appreciate that! I don't have my bow in hand yet but I'm hoping it arrives sooner rather than later. I'm a bit tied up with grad school until August 14th but if you found yourself with a little bit of free time after then (or when I get my bow) I would appreciate any help/guidance more than you know. I'd also love to learn more about establishing foodplots; this will be the first time where I've got enough space to get some established. My concern is that my bow will likely not arrive until early-mid October and I wouldn't want to interrupt any of your hunting time. Hopefully we can figure something out though!

There are many possible options yet you will be restricted to shafts over 30 ½”s.

Achieving EFOC  with long shafts can be a little challenging.

One very lethal possibility, if I may suggest, should be in the ball park.

BE Carnivore 400…~30 7/8”s….3x4” fletch..100 gn insert…250 gn point…~28.7% EFOC..~585 gn total…

Wow! That sounds like an incredible setup. 28.7% EFOC is outstanding! I'll get a look at those arrows; I'm running BE Rampages on my wheel bow and BE definitely makes some nice arrows.

Lumen, welcome. And, you really, really,  should take Friend up on his offer to help you out.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I would LOVE to take Friend up on his offer. I already sent him a PM. 

Good advice posted above.

I am less than a year into a similar journey from compounds. I had a lot of frustration with accuracy until I watched “The Push” on YouTube and set my bows up with a 3-under fixed crawl.

Bagged a doe in late January with a 45# Omega Original longbow and acquired a couple of vintage Wing recurves, 45# Red Wing Hunter (1963) and 47# Thunderbird (1967).

I shoot at a 3D Rinehart buck target almost every day, I am now very accurate inside of 20 yards. Favorite bow is the Red Wing Hunter, everything about it feels just right.

In all three bows, I am using full length 400 spine Beman ICS Bowhunter pro arrows with 250 grain tips, 546 grain total. These chrono at 150-160 FPS depending on the bow. Slowest is the Omega, arrow was a clean pass through on the doe I shot with it.

Leave one of your arrows unfletched and tune it to your bow/form for straight flight by adjusting point weight and/or length. I was able to tune with point weight. It will also define the right nock height, which is crazy high to get level flight with a fixed crawl setup. That way your broadheads will land at the same spot as field points.

Good luck with your journey and hunting.

Thanks so much! I watched The Push video which is actually what drove me to ordering my first longbow! Thanks so much for your advice, I've got so much to learn.

Welcome and enjoy.  Stick with one bow for awhile. IMHO  In the end it's the archer more than the bow, but all them bows do look great.

Thanks for the welcome and advice! My wife might kill me if I started buying a ton of bows!  No worries there. I'm hoping my first bow will be a solid bow for a long time. I'm not sure if I'll end up being proficient enough to hunt with it this season but that's just all the more reason to practice.

  Work on form and don’t shoot to exhaustion. 

This.

Took me a while to realize it, and I always have to force myself to stop. I am the kind of guy who could shoot the whole day at the same target without getting bored, but when you start using your shoulder, neck, or biceps muscles, it is time to stop. Ignoring it led me to pains and to lost/broken arrows.

Thank you Wudstix for the post

Thanks for the advice guys! I noticed it took a completely different set of muscles to draw & hold the shot with a tradbow. Definitely a different experience without those cams to hold all the weight for ya. I'll be sure to focus heavily on form and shot follow through.

Also, I have just read your second post.  Good luck with Grad School, it is one of the toughest things I've done in my life. Remember to schedule time with your family and friends, and whenever you feel in a corner with no way out, say something about it. Seek your colleagues' advice. Don't isolate yourself, it will save you a lot of pain.

Archery wise, it is great that you have a piece of land. I find that training regularly, even just for 15 minutes, but multiple times per week, will do better on your accuracy than shooting more rarely but for longer sessions. Just my two cents.

And welcome to Trad Gang   

This really hit home man. I'm doing two short summer semesters, each one is 5 weeks long. Three classes in the first, two in the second and then grad school is done. Not to whine but I've been having a tough time mentally with all of this lately. I wake up and read for school, I go to work, come home, eat dinner, put the kids to bed, and study/work on school until late at night. Weekends are just an attempt to catch up on everything school related I never had time to do during the week. It's been very taxing. I try to keep reminding myself that I've only got 6 weeks left... I'm looking forward to having my life back.

Thanks for your kind words and advice.

  my advice is keep at it. Takes time to develop good form and consistency. 6 seasons nothing but squirrels here. But I'm keeping at it. 

Hello LUMEN...I am located in western KY...Slaugthers, KY...~2' 35"s away(~164 miles)

It should be worth your while to visit or even stay a couple of days...I have plenty of arrows to get you in the ball park for specs, have worked successfully with many traditional archers from entry level to world class and live on my farm which is developed specifically for hi quality deer management...note:planning to have 14 foodplots this year which may be of particular interest since you have just acquired your own property.

Heck if you're hunting squirrels you must be a pretty darn good shot! I'll stick with it! I'm looking forward to this new challenge.

[olddogrib]

Ahhh Grasshoppa,  the secret to traditional archery is.....sorry that was my best Kung Fu blind sensei impersonation, but that show's probably 45 years older than you are so never mind.  My best advice after 40 years at it is,(drumroll please)...as soon as you can, seek out the help of a good archery coach.  That will prevent you from ingraining bad elements into your form and spending the next 40 years undoing them, as I have.  Not familiar with Friend, but if you don't use him use somebody.  There are several coaches that monitor the archery websites I frequent that have been quite helpful.  If you can't go to them you can make videos and send them to them, etc.  All my 3-D buds thought I was the epitome of form but in all honesty, I sucked.  I'm old and decrepit now, but don't bet against me at the range, lol!  Old archers like grapes, just get better with age!

[Longrifleman]

Since you like heavier arrows, you may want to consider aluminum-Easton still makes them & they're a little easier to work with than carbon, especially when tuning & having to remove inserts & trimming to a shorter length. Start with some Gamegetter 500 spine, or Camo Hunter 2016's-Lancaster Archery Supply sells both in singles so you don't have to buy a dozen at a time. 3 Rivers Archery sells brass inserts that fit in both to get you the FOC that you like. Just a thought.

[Friend]

LUMEN….Assuming that you will be shooting right handed. When your free in August could be good timing. I have numerous bows to choose from
in order to confidently point you the right direction.You could take a bow home with you and return
it after you receive your own.

I am booking hunts now and do not know my actual schedule for deer season.

Note: I will do what is possible to initially get you going and plan to continue to work with you in getting your
bow setup and provide further support as you deem needed.

You may wish to PM or email me going forward.

[madmaxthc]

I try to keep reminding myself that I've only got 6 weeks left... I'm looking forward to having my life back.

I bet you're under stress! Grad school is notorious to take a toll on our minds. Just don't shy away from taking half a day off if you need.

It is great that you have a few weeks left, you can do it! 💪😉
Wish you luck 🙂🤞

[Stump73]

Welcome! I hope you can work it out with Friend. He's a really great guy and very good at helping anyone get into traditional archery. Heck if he can teach me to shoot he can teach anyone. It would also be nice to shoot with you sometime.

[LUMEN]

Well fellas… here I am 4 years later no further along than I was before.I’m still interested and determined to hunt with a trad bow.

Life got unbelievably busy for a while there. I don’t mean to make excuses but MBA was finished, new job took over, had to go overseas for nearly a year, and whatever was left was occupied by the wife and two little ones. Life is finally settling down again. Time to get back at it.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Kyle85]

Welcome back!  Still shooting the bow you got back then?  My best tip is to make aiming as un-technical as possible and avoid over-thinking it.  Hope you enjoy jumping back into it!

[LUMEN]

Welcome back!  Still shooting the bow you got back then?  My best tip is to make aiming as un-technical as possible and avoid over-thinking it.  Hope you enjoy jumping back into it!

Hi Kyle! Thanks for welcoming me back!

I’ve shot my longbow very little in recent years unfortunately. I ended up overseas for the majority of the last two hunting seasons so I didn’t feel quite comfortable with where I was at with the longbow; I ended up grabbing the compound and hitting the woods. The year prior my wife and I were building our house and a lot of time was sucked into that. Year prior to that when I joined I was finishing grad school. Man… it sounds like a lot of excuses huh? My apologies!

 I’m going to dive into the deep end and do my very best to become comfortable with trad gear. I was able to reconnect with “Friend” here and he has so very generously offered his assistance for a second time. I am beyond thankful and I will absolutely connect with Friend and take his advice to heart. I am ready to learn and thankfully I’m in a much better position when it comes to free time.

I don’t believe I answered your question… I’m still shooting my 64” Hobow Longbow. I’m hoping with Friend’s advice I can learn to shoot it halfway decently. 

Thanks again for the warm welcome!

Patrick

[PrimitivePete]

If you want to achieve the greatest consistency, use a simpler method. I see a ton of shooting styles and what has worked for me is to reduce my actions to complete the shot to only the necessary requirements. Anything else adds to possible inconsistency and varied results.

[Buck350]

Greetings from the other side of the pond LUMAN.

I'll chime in with a few of the important things I've learned so far in my journey:

• Alignment with a trad bow is really important - Do a search here on Tradgang for "Terrys Form Clock"

• Build EACH shot - Be consistent, as much fun as shooting arrows is, don't just haul it back and let 'er rip

• Remember to "Pick a spot" - Focus intently on it

• Clear your clothes - I'm 6' tall and let's say fairly solidly built, and I shoot 66" longbows. If I get slack (or tired) string clearance of my clothes can sometimes become an issue. Even now, it can still take a while for me to realise what's causing those few wild left and low shots. String clearance.

• Keep it fun - If you are having a bad day with your bow, put it down and go do something else for a while.

There is plenty of wisdom and tips here on Tradgang, and many of those here are very wise indeed and are very gracious and willing to share their knowledge and experience. It's a top site, the members and their knowledge have helped me immensely over the years.

Again, welcome

Best
Lex

I agree with all this, but the Bowhunters of Tradgang DVD has a lot of shooting info in it as well and addresses things posted in the form clock thread. Its also available in digital now. I hope you stay on track and let us know your progress. I love hearing about stuff like that. Best of luck. 

[LUMEN]

I had the chance to meet up with Friend and had an absolutely fantastic time! Friend is incredibly kind, patient, and wise—and an EXCELLENT shot! Although I didn’t perform very well, Friend’s advice helped me make significant improvements. Within a few hours, the advice started to click, and by the end of the day, I was (occasionally) grouping arrows together at 20 yards—a huge improvement from where I started.

I’m still making plenty of mistakes, but I’m committed to putting in the work to overcome them.

Thank you so much, Friend, for everything. I had a great time and truly enjoyed your company. I hope we can shoot together again soon. I’ll keep practicing and working on the advice you gave me.

Patrick

[Bowguy67]

Regarding Bowhunting with a trad bow especially early after a switch. Your mind prob has to change. You won’t get the same chances, opportunities, etc. The bow is longer, slower, most people can’t be as pin point accurate surely at first. You need to pass longer shots.
But… when you succeed, it’s all that much sweeter. You’ve really accomplished something and that’s the way hunting should be. What did you put into it? How did you make it happen? It’s a big self satisfaction thing. Readjust your thinking. Just start deer hunting again (initially at least)and enjoy the hunt the way you never did before. First deer you pic with a stykbow next to it you’ll understand