Starting to feel the itch - AK Moose 2020

[IndianaBowman]

Walt, I will be watching this thread closely.  While, I have done 9 drop hunts in Alaska, I'm still ignorant of the modern tents, packs, boots, and clothing. I will be upgrading much of my gear for next fall.  I hope all recognize the value of what Walt, Kevin, Mike and others are providing. It can literally be life saving....

[IndianaBowman]

I'm really interested in your choice of rain gear.

[wingnut]

I'm on the shelf this year with back issues, so I'll live through you guys.  Sure going to miss Alaska.

Mike

[Herdbull]

The sawtooth is nice and allows you to stand to put on pants , but that's about it. It is very light. I never ran a stove in mine, but I have not hunted as far north as Kevin and Walt. I try to get flown in with my gear in one trip. Saves expense and logistics in bad weather. Each plane trip can come with unexpected delays. Mike

[Walt Francis]

Everybody,

Sorry for the delay, I devoted myself to building a takedown selfbow with recurved tips over the weekend, it took all my time.

Hi Terry,

My plan is to work on camp gear, followed by clothing, equipment, personal gear, then miscellaneous stuff. 


Stoves

First my disclaimer, I have limited experience with light weight collapsible stoves.  In the past I have used the following stoves with my thoughts on them: 
1.   Titanium Kifaru (no longer made).  The Good, it was light and kept a six man Kifaru tent warm, great customer service.  The Bad. I understand why they no longer make them it was small and not airtight.  You could see air gaps in all the corners.  Burned fuel extremely quick.
2.   Steel XL Kifaru, The Good, it kept an eight man Kifaru tent warm, great customer service.  The Bad. was heavy for its size compared to most of the other stoves you could see air gaps in all the corners.  Burned fuel quick but not nearly as fast as their Titanium model.
3.   A steel stove that did not collapse, of unknown make. somewhere out of Washington or Canada, I think.  Same size and weight as the Kifaru XL.  It is by far most airtight, most sturdy built, and longest burning of all the stoves.  The bad.  I did not colipase and weighed the same as the XL Kifaru. 
4.   Titanium First Light, Large model.  The Good.  Light Weight, fairly airtight, great customer service, easily kept an eight man Kifaru tent warm.  The bad. Other then the price there is not much I did not like about this stove. 
5.   TiGoat WiFi (now Rruta Rocura) Large. The Good.  Light Weight, fairly airtight, price is about 20% less than the equivalent First Light model and will easily keep an eight man Kifaru tent warm, there is not much I do not like about this stove.  The bad. Finding the models that are made and ordering.  TiGoat does not exist any longer, the guy making the stoves now builds them on a one on one order. There is no web site or pictures for the stove, just one with various mountaineering equipment they carry, but it provides an email address if you want one of the stoves.  Finding only one picture of the stove on the internet, but having seen one twice before and being impressed with it, I sent the guy an email with a picture of the stove asking for pricing in the large model.  I got the price, it was a hundred bucks cheaper than the First Lite, received the stove in four weeks instead of six weeks as promised.  Only problem was it was completely different then the stove in the picture, it came with what I would call a Mickey Mouse door.  Called the maker (got his number with the paperwork), found out he only makes the one the picture in an XL model, so I up graded to that model and sent the first one back. The guy is really great to work with, you need to accept it is a one man operation and it can be slow. The stove has performed great the couple of times it has been used.

A few thing to consider are:
1.   The length of the stove.  It is less time consuming to break branches into 14-16” (a good axe is convenient) lengths then into 8- 12” lengths
2.   Size of the door.  Some of stoves you can barely fit a two inch Thick stick into
3.   Stove pipe.  If use a lightweight tent, get a good screen for the stove pipe.  Embers from the fire can land on the tent and burn pin sized holes in it.  The TiGoat came with the best screen of all the tents.
4.   Stability.  All the stoves above except #3 are held up by ¼” bolts, they need to sit on something solid, so they do not sink into the tundra
5.   Do not expect any of the collapsible stoves to hold heat or stay lit for awfully long. 
6.   They will roast out the top of the tent and barely be warm at ground level.  They work better in a tent with a liner.
7.   Do not expect them to dry out your soaking clothes unless you plan on spending most the night or day tending the fire.  This is where fleece is nice, but we will leave that topic for later.
8.   You can cook on them, but it is much faster to use a pocket rocket or jet boil.  For me, the steel stoves work better than the titanium ones for cooking.

[Walt Francis]

Hi Mike,

You are correct, making the weight and limiting the number of trips is paramount to to keeping the costs down.  My pilot limits us to 65#'s of gear.  Always tell him that I should be able to carry another 30-40#'s because Kevin Dill is at least that much bigger then me and he get's 65#'s.

[IndianaBowman]

Walt, I've never used a stove on my hunts. Can you tell us the benefits of a stove?  Warmth and the ability to dry a few things seem to pop to the top of the list. I've preferred to use the weight for a large square Quallofil bag and have dried my clothes (wool/fleece/polypropylene) by putting them between my sleeping bag and sleeping pad.

[Matthew Wilson]

Great Post!
   After meeting Mr. Mitten at the Springfield Gathering I too was inspired to try a solo Alaskan Moose hunt. September of 21 is my departure. Please keep this thread full, I am soaking it up!
          Matthew

[Bryan Bondurant]

Disclosure, I have never killed a moose with a bow, so I don't want to come across as a "expert" moose archery hunter. That stated I was there in the interior for 2 years straight, almost died a few times, and still have a hunting camp there a hundred miles out of Fairbanks. Mostly I bow hunted small game when I was there and large game with firearms, as a brute force survival exercise.

This is not going to be book here, so lots of short notes, leaving out lots of details.

Tents,,,,, Never ever never leave camp or get out of an airplane without a simple blue tarp and a fire stick, "One Is Zero" when it comes to making fires, I can get into that on another thread. Even if its just a 8 x 10 blue tarp, its the single most important thing your gonna have for both short term and long term health and welfare, even if you have a tent.

What is the use of a tent? Why? Once its cold, my opinion, you do not need one, when  i say cold I mean 20 degrees day time high temperature end of fall till spring, no wet. In that weather, a wind break and fire is better, if you have real snow, a snow shovel is more valuable than a tent.

The reason for light weight high tech tents is to stay dry, synthetic material sleeping bags will still keep you warm when they are wet. Down is better in winter, useless when wet. High tech tents are great when moving fast short term. The big deal is always until freeze is getting wet and drying off. A high tech tent is pretty much useless once you and everything you own is wet, reason being, you need real fire to heat and dry under a shelter, aka blue tarp. Also every high tech tent when wet will pond inside, what keeps water out will also keep water in.

Base camps in Alaska should always be canvas no floor with a wood stove. if you fly in, you set up a canvas tent and a stove, keep a blue tarp on your frame pack. Again, never leave camp without blue tarp and redundant fire, "one is zero" when it comes to arrows and fire starter.

The other issue besides moisture is mosquitos, I never encountered biting flies in Alaska like i did in Maine. Most likely a Moose hunter is not going to encounter full on summer biting insects in Alaska, but you can get some biting insects in September. Your biggest fight against that is going to be netting, canvas, clothing, leather, but even better in a camp will be smudge. Fire with green spruce on it is going to be your best friend,,,,, chemicals are good too but you have to fly them in and they will run out.

Any questions? Blue Tarp, Fire, Bunny Boots, Signaling Aircraft, Starting a log jam fire at minus 40 degrees? What happens when a sled dog puppy knocks over a fuel lamp and burns your cabin down at minus 40?

Outside of staying alive, if you do make a large kill such as a moose, how are you going to butcher and preserve it, lots of considerations, using a phone to call in help and transport, thats a good first plan but you need a multiple variant contengent positive outcome to win, Alaska has no respect for humans or our plans,,,,,,, b.

[Kevin Dill]

My pilot limits us to 65#'s of gear.  Always tell him that I should be able to carry another 30-40#'s because Kevin Dill is at least that much bigger then me and he get's 65#'s.

Lol...My secret is that I lose 5 pounds of body weight every year and add 5# to my gear. It's great motivation. On the serious side of things....a number of years ago I developed some concerning health issues and ultimately lost 60 pounds of body weight. That was an interesting time.

Tipis and ultralight stoves....what a great topic. As Walt says, there are many and none are perfect. Like a bow, they all work but some will work better for you. No way could I go into all the variations and preferences on tipis, so I'll say this: I want mine to be strong and able to withstand heavy weather. I don't have enough money to buy a cheap shelter...meaning it will ultimately cost me less in the long run to buy a better shelter today. Think about that. Oh, and I always take a tipi's man-rating (8-man, 4-man etc) and divide it by 4 to get the REAL rating for a comfortable basecamp with room for gear. A Sawtooth will accept 4 sleepers, but it's commonly thought of as a 2-man unit. Having spent a lot of time in one, I will assure you a Sawtooth with woodstove, 2 bedrolls, 2 hunters, and your extra gear is a crowded hotel room. I see it as a 1-man basecamp for 14 days.

8-Man Seek Outside I used 3 years:



I've done a number of different stoves. All have had various disappointments and several models aren't being made any more. What I've come to think is important to me:

Ease of assembly
Don't oversize for shelter
Titanium over stainless
Draft (intake) control AND a flue damper
Flat top over a cylinder
Bigger door
Fewer parts = more simplicity

I'd like to think I've found the near-perfect stove. I own a Seek Outside U-Turn Titanium which has every characteristic I listed above. Very important to me is that it has the ability to completely shut down air to the fire and slow the burn or put it out.

I wouldn't prefer to go moose hunting without a stove. Incredibly useful for maintaining dry clothes, boots, rain gear, pack and inside the tipi. I can cook on if needed. And it goes without saying all that heat is wonderful on a cold rainy evening.



And don't forget the tools you need to feed that stove. I'm not into wood-scrounging (as in just roughing up whatever I can find) so I bring a saw and hand axe. I find dead standing wood and bring it to camp. There I cut it to lengths and split the rounds into stove wood. There is nothing better than seeing this inside my tipi....

[Bryan Bondurant]

Its all good as long as things go according to plan, but what happens if they don't? I was up at what is not Joint Base Lewis McChord in early 90s, used to hang around an outfitter called Base Camp. I got my first Goretex Jacket there, 1992? Their primary business was training and outfitting climbers for Mt Rainier. Now days you can just go online and get a good idea, a place to start, for about any adventure. Back then, you had to go there and learn, if you were lucky you might have a book to read.

Getting straight to the point, many people from Colorado were coming up to climb Mt Rainier, many based on knowledge, what they knew from climbing in Colorado, (not at all comparable) resulting in many accidents and some deaths. The reason being, a lack of local knowledge. When in Alaska, Do It The Alaska Way!"

Get back to the basics, read old Alaska books, study the sled dog racers from the Yukon Quest, what they consider as equipment needs.
 
Some random thoughts,,,,, Zippers are junk,,,, try to deal with a broken zipper at minus 20. A good pull over canvas Parky aka Anorak with no zippers is about ten times better than a new modern high tech jacket. If it does rip or something, it can be fixed.

As soon as you get out of the plane, unload, and that plane leaves, there is no guarantee of anything. Obviously you cannot fly a years worth of supplies in for a one week float trip or even a base camp hunt. However you can still learn the old Alaska ways of doing things, read lots of real Alaska stories, have a years worth of knowledge before your boots on the ground.

Sometimes the smartest people die from not knowing and understanding the simplest things. Christopher Mccandles was possibly the greatest outdoorsman of our time, an expert on foraging with an iron will. Many have written him off as a silly hippy that died in a bus, I do not. He made plenty of simple mistakes but the two biggest were made because of one thing, most importantly the two mistakes that killed him.

Criss lacked a local knowledge, he broke my biggest rule, always learn from the locals, dress the way they dress, eat what they eat, you don't have to eat everything they eat, I have passed on some pretty nasty stuff in Asia. If locals do not eat it, do not eat it, you are probably not smarter than them since they actually live there. Criss relied on a book for what he could eat and not eat, the book was wrong. If he had gone up and lived with a trapper for the summer, or some old sour dough, he would have known.

He also relied on a conversation had in the Dakotas about preserving meat. He made a kill and then lost it because he tried to smoke it with no experience smoking meats. If he had simply carried out some salt and sugar, a blue tarp, he could have made a simple cover shelter, brine, stripped the meat, fish, and dried it out the same way every Alaskan I know does it, no big deal, none of us would have ever heard of him. He could have waited till the river froze and just walked out the same way a thousand or more gold prospectors had done.

[Bryan Bondurant]

As far as the 14 day quarantine, Im on the phone to the interior at least once a week. The quarantine is not enforceable, nothing to worry about if you are set up with a hunting guide.

A guy from the interior drove up through Canada on the Alcan in June, was told to not stop for anything but gas, so in that way even Canada was open. If your flying up, most likely you will get off one plane in Fairbanks or whatever, then get on another and fly out of the civilized world.

There are some Native Corps that are closed, for the most part none of them are involved in guiding hunts.

Anyone that has a trip planned, keep getting ready and plan on going. Just keep up with your hunting guide, local on the ground conditions, what they have to say.

[IndianaBowman]

Thanks Bryan for chiming in.  Local knowledge is invaluable.  Keep it coming.  Fun stuff.

[Whip]

I'm like a sponge....
This is great info.  I almost feel like I'm cheating though because my partner has been doing this a long time and has things dialed in. I'm just along for the ride.  Rumor is that his camp is like staying at a Hilton.  I think I'm in for a treat! 

[Bigriver]

Yes, yes you are cheating... jealous!

[Bryan Bondurant]

I'm like a sponge....
This is great info.  I almost feel like I'm cheating though because my partner has been doing this a long time and has things dialed in. I'm just along for the ride.  Rumor is that his camp is like staying at a Hilton.  I think I'm in for a treat!

Got any interest in trading camps? I could throw in a three legged blind sled dog leader and multiple red light champ named Lucky????? My only interest in the thread is to see t gangers have a good hunting experience, once I was a young cat with 13 lives, that was yesterday. 

[Kevin Dill]

One thing that can't be ignored for most of us traveling in by Super Cub is that we have to do a basecamp-type hunt lasting 10-14 days while limiting ourselves to very light gear loads. And of course it's not just about the gear needed to have a camp. There's the matter of weaponry, clothing, plenty of nutrition, and lots more. Handling a dead moose requires certain additional gear which uses up precious pounds of your allotted weight. None of this is an issue for guys jet-boating a river or using ATVs to access their areas. Light aircraft get us to very remote areas at the expense of bringing only the essential gear....often with some hard choices to leave out things we'd love to bring.

One example of how things can go askew in an instant:

Last year I picked up a satellite phone in Fairbanks from the same rental person I've used for years. He was out on a hunt but had dropped the phone and accessories at the hotel where I picked them up. Easy. I arrived in camp first and began setting things up, knowing my partner would arrive in an hour or two. Unknown to me, his arrival was delayed a bit due to our pilot changing his flight schedule. I got the tipi up and camp in basic order, then took a quick break for lunch. The sat phone was handy and I decided to send a quick text to my wife that all was good on my end. The phone screen showed a message...."NO SIM CARD"...and that means no phone use. I verified there was no SIM card in the phone or case. I couldn't communicate. I had to think quickly.

When the Cub landed with my partner I met the plane and explained the situation to our pilot. I gave him contact info for the rental guy, and he was airborne 10 minutes later. Two days later my pilot over-flew our camp and air-dropped a plastic tube with the missing SIM card. This turned out to be only a minor inconvenience BECAUSE my pilot came in with my partner after I discovered the problem. Had I been dropped on a solo hunt and found the problem after the plane flew away, I would've had no way to communicate with anyone....pilot...wife...etc. In Alaska the lesson always comes after the test.

[Bryan Bondurant]

One story anyone heading to the bush should know is that of Carl McCunn. He had the unfortunate experience of failing to properly signal an aircraft that could have rescued him after forgetting to set up a airplane to retrieve him in fall from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Warning, it was a bad outcome.

Not sure what kind of links I can ad so just do a search on Carl McCunn Alaska and you will find plenty written about it.

[Bryan Bondurant]

Kevin, good story and glad you got it corrected. It seems crazy now but my only communication up there was an old car radio at my camp, so I had a one way communication, I could listen to weather reports and you could mail or send a letter in to the station and they would read it over the radio to communicate to other people in remote locations.

I use this saying a lot  when it comes to mission critical gear,,,,,,, ONE IS ZERO,,,, Redundancy and repair parts for weapons, fire, light, first aid, and communications will save your bacon

[wingnut]

One thing to remember when  in the field in Alaska. Take your communication device (sat phone, in reach etc.) with you when you leave camp.  You are much more  likely to have an accident that requires evacuation when out and about then sitting in camp.  John and I woke up to this  a few years ago and started carrying one of our in reach units with us.  It's also cool to text someone that you just killed a big bull.

Mike