Small 3-blades and 40# for deer?

[Sky-chief]

Please share any experience or opinion regarding the use of small 3-blade heads like the Montec, Hellrazor, etc out of bows in the light 40's, for deer hunting.

Appreciate all replies, as I'm thinking of going this route this year.

I'm pulling a full 28" and 40 pounds.  Shaft/head weight is 405 grains with 100 grain heads.  Tuned very well. 

Best regards, Skychief.

PS.  If you would recommend any other 100grain 3 blade head without replaceable blades, it would be appreciated.

[Orion]

I suppose they'll get the job done if everything goes right, but it often doesn't.  Obviously, a smaller 2-blade head would penetrate better.  I also think there are other 3-blade heads that would penetrate better, the Woodsman, for example. 

The Montec and Hellrazor are short/stubby heads and don't have the mechanical advantage that a Woodsman has.  They were designed for wheel bow shooters, and, given their more efficient and generally higher poundage equipment, they don't have trouble pushing those short heads through critters.  Not as easily done with a low weight trad bow.

One can find several examples of anything, so I'm sure someone will provide anecdotal evidence of their lethality on deer size critters.  Wouldn't be my first choice though. 

[Bowguy67]

I agree w above. You’re limited to a lighter poundage. Shoot a head designed for that for best results. The heads mentioned aren’t them

[old_goat2]

Only 3 blade I'd use from that light of setup are Valkyrie! 

[Terry Green]

I would not use montec ..  very poor angle off attack,  VERY POOR. Plus they are made of powdered metal making them a terrible choice all around.

Stick with Wensel woodsman or vpa. Montces are trash.

Gene and Barry made the ww for lightweight bows, so their profile works for your setup.

If all you are after is deer, no worries on a fomatible  3 blade.... hogs and elk, different story. 

Deer are nothing but a grocery bag full of shaving cream, tinker toys and a ball joint.  Just stay away from the ball joint. At 40#s your not going to get through the ball joint with any head.

[Huntschool]

I am gonna throw in my 2 cents worth here..... 

I have gone to lighter weight bows in the last few years, 38, 40 and 45#'s.  I normally only shoot 2 edge BH's but decided to try a 3 blade a couple years ago and went with a WW.  My 2 blades have almost always given me through and through penetration at 20 yards and under with the 40 and 45 bows.  The first deer I took with the WW at 20 yards did not go through.  It very well could have been my angle as the second deer with that set up had the BH protruding out the far side.  These were both shot with carbon arrows with about 20% FOC and moving about 180 fps.

I dont know that I can draw any conclusions for myself based on these two incidents.  However, I am going to continue to shoot my 2 blades from 40# and down and will reserve the WW for 45# and above.

By the way, are you the same Sky chief of the Sky-Chief shot load for smooth bore  muzzle loaders ?

[Friend]

Would like a some clarification before commenting....

Are you shooting a total arrow wt of 405 gns or 505 gns????

[Sky-chief]

Thanks for the replies.

Friend, my shafts with 100 grain heads weigh 405 grains total.  Give or take.

Huntschool, yes Sir, I'm Skychief in muzzleloading circles too.  You caught me!!!

Best regards, Skychief.

[Friend]

A very lethal setup for deer can easily be obtained from a 40# bow with the right arrow. Deer hunting with a 405 gn arrow, IMO, is far too light and an inferior choice whether shooting a 2 blade or three blade BH.

Have experience in setting up multiple hunters with 40# bows...building their arrows and guiding them to successful deer harvest...all arrows were at least 520 gns and used 2 blade 250 gn VPA's. All exhibited complete pass thru's and short recoveries. Note: Shot placement is key...lighter hunting draw weights require a heavier arrow.  I have not tested the lower limits of a 3 blade.

The game we pursue deserve nothing short of our best efforts.

[Terry Green]

I missed the 405 grains... no worries if ya shooting 50#s, but gotta agree with Friend.  12 grains pp would be better,  i.e. 480 grains.

[blacktailbob]

Zwickey No Mercy for me out of my #44 Sitka. Blew through this pig like hot knife through butter. 10gpp.

[smokin joe]

The type of bow really matters. A 40 pound Hill style longbow is not the equivalent of a 40 pound super recurve, or even a fast hybrid. An efficient, fast bow that gets every bit of possible energy out of the limb and transfers that energy to the arrow will do a better pound-for-pound job.

I am shooting a very efficient, high-performance bow at 45 pounds, and I have every confidence in hunting with razor-sharp, well-designed three-blade heads like the Wensel Woodsman.

[Terry Green]

Yeah Joe, your bow is like a 50 pounder, I know, I've shot it!!!...you got no worries. Can't wait to see the smack down you put on one 

[smokin joe]

Right, Terry. I know I am getting good performance from the Centaur. It is a heck of a bow.

[Sky-chief]

Thanks for all the replies and thoughts guys.

I'm using a vintage Bear Black Bear recurve.  No speed demon, but no slouch either.

Really appreciate your time and thoughts.

Best regards, Skychief.

[Terry Green]

Zwickey No Mercy for me out of my #44 Sitka. Blew through this pig like hot knife through butter. 10gpp.

Congrats Bob!!! Gotta love them Zzzzzzsss!

[Kelly]

Why is 9-10 grains per pound draw weight ok on heavier bow but not on light ones?

[Jon Stewart]

ANY sharp broad head with a properly placed hit will kill a deer.

[Wheels2]

It is tough to see this type of post so often.
All 40# bows are not equal.  A 40# Covert Hunter is a lot different than a 40# Bear Grizzly.
There is no magical, clearly definitive, minimum line.

When in doubt, go with the two blade.  No one ever complains about over penetration.  Deer shot with arrows that remain partially in them tend to run farther and longer.

If you want to hedge your bet, try a Zwickey Eskimo four blade

[Friend]

Kelly...Momentum is a primary key factor in determining arrow lethality - not kinetic energy

Keneticis Energy is possessed energy in all directions. The KE calc focuses on velocity as it is squared in the equation.

Momentum is directional force and is primarily driven by mass weight and is far less impacted by velocity.

Extreme example: being  hit by a ping pong ball travelling 150 mph or a 100 car train traveling 5 mph would produce catastropically different outcomes.

A typical 40# bow shooting a 400 gn arrow would likely  produce momentum at a marginal range for pursuing deer, especially if less than an ideal mark is made.



The 10 GPP so called rule is actually a better guide line for protection of the bow itself. The 10 GPP coincidently produces adequate momentum for hunting arrows  in the 50# range in pursuit deer sized quarry. Note: Many bowyers in the past voided the warranties on bows shooting arrows less than 9 gpp.

Note: A typical 40# bow can have an properly designed arrow that will be consistently prove lethal and penetrate bone on a water buffalo... that arrow would have a gpp over 25.