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Author Topic: shot trigger  (Read 4192 times)

Offline Vesty

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shot trigger
« on: January 20, 2021, 02:43:32 PM »
Just curious. How effective is using back of broadhead touching bow hand finger as release signal. I've heard that is what Howard Hill did.

Online Alexander Traditional

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2021, 03:05:58 PM »
I've tried this and like it a lot. I had a hard time tuning arrows though. Going to keep playing with it.

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2021, 05:58:45 PM »
I’ve been shooting that way for about 20 years. I’ve had zero problem tuning  wood carbon or aluminum. If you remember back 10 years ago some carbon arrow makers advised cutting the shaft the length you need then adjusting point weight to tune. Black widow used to sell the brass weights that screwed in to the tip insert or nock insert. I don’t remember when 6-8” of arrow sticking out past the riser became the norm.

I’ve never needed the nock or added insert weights myself. If your to stiff go down a spine to weak go up not as difficult as people make it. Fine tune with point weight then get your broadheads to the same weight done.

Shooting net length arrows as Hill and John Schulz advised does a couple things. First you will have the same draw length every shot. Doesn’t matter if your shooting straight up or down standing ,sitting or laying down. This makes your arrow trajectory very consistent which helps a lot with instinctive shooting. Second you don’t look like a African bushman with 3’ arrows.

Sometimes, most times, the solution to bow shooting problems have already been found, years ago. For some reason people like to re invent problems. The way I see it unless someone can out  shoot Howard Hill or John Schulz I’ll just pass on their shooting advice.

Offline Flingblade

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2021, 07:02:48 AM »
What would you use for a trigger or draw check when shooting target points?

Online Alexander Traditional

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2021, 07:04:32 AM »
I was wondering about this too. I was going to try a little piece or wire or something that wouldn't affect flight.

Offline smag

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2021, 09:27:48 AM »
Purty sure Hill gapped, used a sight picture and referenced shaft. He was not just slinging or guesstimating arrow trajectory. He was using an aiming method. There is no doubt about that.

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Online The Whittler

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2021, 09:45:15 AM »
Boy don't let Roy Rogers find out.  :biglaugh:

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2021, 12:18:08 PM »
With carbons I found some small washers to fit behind field tip. With wood you can use shell cases, find one that fits the shaft. 5/16” shaft  a .32 cal case will fit, the rim of the case is the same as back of broadhead. The shell cases are some of the best stump shooters imo,  for wood or carbon. You can add fishing weights to the primer pocket and make any weight you need.

You can also find field tips that are slightly bigger diameter than the shaft. 5/16” carbon and 11/32 field tip. You will fill the edge of the field tip as it touches your finger.

After a couple months you will probably not need the reference with field tips. You get used to the exact same draw. When hunting your usually taking one shot and aren’t warmed up shooting multiple arrows like a practice session, so the broadhead touching your finger still helps. I shoot grizzlys a lot and you can even turn the BH horizontal and the squared back of the Bh will touch the riser and you don’t even have to touch your finger.

If you find you have consistency problems with your draw length just stick with the field tip broadhead reference. None of these effect arrow flight, make no noise and you don’t have to adjust them like a clicker with a string hanging off them. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 12:26:08 PM by David Phillips »

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2021, 12:47:38 PM »
Purty sure Hill gapped, used a sight picture and referenced shaft. He was not just slinging or guesstimating arrow trajectory. He was using an aiming method. There is no doubt about that.

Shawn~!

Pretty sure your stuck on the quotes from Hills book. He was a target archer for many years, he wrote about his target style. Things evolve and so did Hills shooting.

When you watch John Schulz shoot, your not watching someone that watched a Hill YouTube video, read a book about Hill or sat thru a seminar on shooting. Your seeing someone shoot that was instructed by Hill personally for months if not years. They were close friends and hunting partners. John was taught every aspect of the Hill style method of both shooting, and building Hill style bows aswell as hunting with them. John made Hills personal bows in the later years. Howard Hills wife wrote that John Schulz and John alone was the only person that shot the true Hill  method. That includes Bob Wesley or Hills nephew.

If you watch John Schulz shoot you’ll see there is no time to reference an arrow and certainly no time to line up a gap. It’s just like the “how to grip the longbow” experts that say you should grip the bow on the side of the handle like a suit case? They have in their minds decided they knew more about what Hill wrote than he did. You will never find a picture of Hills hand on a bow griped at the side... ever. Why would Hill mean grip the side but never shoot that way or teach anyone else to shoot that way?

The only mystery to shooting like Hill or Schulz is not the technique. The mystery is why people can’t comprehend what they see and read without thinking they know better than the ones doing the shooting. Feel free to shoot standing up straight with a straight arm and grip it like a recurve or whatever you want. Shoot 31” arrows with a 26” draw and put a level on your bow so it remains perfectly straight up and down when shooting. Hold at full draw for 10 seconds until the arrow tip is right where you want it. But you ain’t shooting like Hill and you ain’t gonna get the same results period.

Offline Sam McMichael

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2021, 12:58:01 PM »
It seems to me that as long as you reach your anchor point, it doesn't matter how that relates to where the point is. If the anchor is solid, the point position will be solid, whether or not it touches your finger. I try to concentrate on whether or not I feel that my aim looks good and let that trigger the release. Maybe I'm missing something.
Sam

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2021, 01:00:52 PM »
Picture of Surewood shaft with shell casing blunt. Works really good for small game doesn’t stick deep into stumps or dirt, my favorite stump shooting arrow tips. Built in draw check, you will feel the rim of the case when it touches your finger.

Another one of those “new ideas” this one probably was a brand new discovery in oh 1935 or so

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2021, 01:07:40 PM »
It seems to me that as long as you reach your anchor point, it doesn't matter how that relates to where the point is. If the anchor is solid, the point position will be solid, whether or not it touches your finger. I try to concentrate on whether or not I feel that my aim looks good and let that trigger the release. Maybe I'm missing something.

You can reach your anchor point, say corner of your mouth with middle finger, and be 1/2” or more from your full draw. Shooting uphill or down people tend to pull more or less. You have your back anchor point but the bow hand is not bolted to the ground. You can easily stretch and get an extra inch of draw length. You shouldn’t need to be told that inconsistent draw length causes inconsistent shooting. It is after all why they sell 10 different clicker versions, to fix just that problem.

Online McDave

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2021, 01:10:17 PM »
“Pretty sure your stuck on the quotes from Hills book. He was a target archer for many years, he wrote about his target style. Things evolve and so did Hills shooting.”

So are you saying that the best plan for the average shooter who wants to get better is to skip Hill's evolutionary steps and jump directly to his conclusion?
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Offline smag

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2021, 01:44:57 PM »
John was a good shooter. Swing draw shooter and came to Hill much later in life. I dont think he shot like John much and certainly not shooting field.

Lots of what John thought as then is nowhere taught today and rarely is used much. He had a great memory for his arrow trajectory out to 100yds and could not stand with Howard even as an older man at the line.

Exibition he was good. Did HH shoot like him not one bit.

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Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2021, 03:04:23 PM »


So are you saying that the best plan for the average shooter who wants to get better is to skip Hill's evolutionary steps and jump directly to his conclusion?

It’s pretty clear John Schulz did not start with any gapping style, there was no progression.  John Schulz said so, John was taught by Howard Hill. Are you saying Howard Hill personally taught you a different style of shooting? If not then we can just skip all the “maybe he said, or I like it better this way, or doesn’t work for me nonsense”, and just go with what John said and did. Or shoot however you want.

It’s not real difficult to understand really. If you want to shoot like H Hill or John Schulz the method, the practice regiment, how to hold the bow, how long your arrows should be everything is explained. You either put in the time to learn it or don’t that’s up to the individual

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2021, 03:25:06 PM »
John was a good shooter. Swing draw shooter and came to Hill much later in life. I dont think he shot like John much and certainly not shooting field.

Lots of what John thought as then is nowhere taught today and rarely is used much. He had a great memory for his arrow trajectory out to 100yds and could not stand with Howard even as an older man at the line.

Exibition he was good. Did HH shoot like him not one bit.

Smag

I’d really like to know where you are getting your information. Howard Hill was a target archer for many years, also a exhibition shooter. He also was a hunter. The style Hill taught John was a hunting style.

You ask if HHill shot like him, I’m assuming the him is Schulz? Hill taught John so yes John shot like Hill not the other way around lol.

Where and when did you see John Schulz shoot “at the line” against Hill?
Just because the Hill method taught to John isn’t used as much now in noway changes its effectiveness. Look at how the average shooter shoots now, do you really think they come close to John Schulz?

Have you actually seen Hill shoot in the old movies? Have you watched John Schulz shooting? If you don’t think they are shooting the same something is disconnected. Where are you seeing Howard Hill field target shooting?

Unless you were taught personally by Howard Hill or can our shoot either Hill or Schulz we can disregard anything you have to say about how they shot period.

This is a horse that has been dead a long time ago, but continues to be beaten over and over. What we have is thousands of people over the years that try and fail at the Hill style taught to John Schulz. They either never put in the time and effort required, or tried some short cut or some modifications to the style. Then they are convinced that their failure is proof the style doesn’t work. The problem with this conclusion is there are a lot of people that instead of attempting short cuts and modifications ,just listened to the man that actually knew Hill and knew how to shoot. They followed the instructions and found it not only works but is very accurate and the best style for hunting.

I have never once in my life met anyone that put in the time and effort, learned the Hill style, became good at it, and then decided a target stance and 10 second hold at full draw worked better.  I have known about 50 people personally that tried and failed, everyone’s failure was one of two things. Not practicing enough, or trying to modify the instructions.

To quote John Schulz( who actually knew Hill) “there’s some that know and some that think they know” It ain’t hard to see the difference.

Offline smag

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2021, 03:38:57 PM »
You may think you know what yer talking about but HH did not shoot grapes off live people with instinctive shooting and broadheads. That's a simple fact. He shot fairly fast but had an aiming system. I say he gapped it at ranges he shot.

Shultz has a common old style hunting style shot period. Anchored with thumb behind ear. Little guy, good shooter.

Yeah, this has been dead as 5 Oclock. Come to the Howard Hill in June you show me how instinctive is going to with the $.

Nice to hang on to the old school. Its nagalistic but it wont put gas in the truck of Championships or buckles on yer belt. Not 1945. The best USA international archer before Brady does not even perk an ear. Bet you think he shot instinctive too. Please waste someone elses time.

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Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2021, 03:53:46 PM »
You may think you know what yer talking about but HH did not shoot grapes off live people with instinctive shooting and broadheads. That's a simple fact. He shot fairly fast but had an aiming system. I say he gapped it at ranges he shot.

Shultz has a common old style hunting style shot period. Anchored with thumb behind ear. Little guy, good shooter.

Yeah, this has been dead as 5 Oclock. Come to the Howard Hill in June you show me how instinctive is going to with the $.

Nice to hang on to the old school. Its nagalistic but it wont put gas in the truck of Championships or buckles on yer belt. Not 1945. The best USA international archer before Brady does not even perk an ear. Bet you think he shot instinctive too. Please waste someone elses time.

HH~

So pretty much like I thought. You don’t know Hill, never met Hill and cannot shoot like John Schulz or Hill. The one wasting time is you trying to convince yourself you know more about Howard Hill than his personal friends.

Lol so you think because the guys that spend time at shooting contests can’t shoot like John Schulz means none can?

When did you see Hill shoot a grape off someone’s head with a broadhead arrow, in your dreams?

You obviously think yourself some kind of H Hill expert. Please answer the million dollar, 50 year old question. Why did Howard Hill not teach John Schulz gap shooting? If you cannot answer that we can assume everything else you say on the subject is both fabricated and useless.
So in summary: You never met Howard Hill, never shot with him, never received shooting instruction from him. Yet you really think you know more about how he shot or taught others than a man that knew Hill, hunted with him, built bows for him and was personally taught from scratch how to shoot? That is a good definition of delusion.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 03:59:17 PM by David Phillips »

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2021, 04:11:55 PM »
Expect to be respected if you decide to join the gang, because the rule of respect is held highest of the few rules that apply. Tradgang.com has a zero tolerance for disrespect directed to anyone. If you want to disagree, then please do so in an adult manner. Debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another, but it must be done in an honorable fashion.

Offline David Phillips

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Re: shot trigger
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2021, 04:35:06 PM »
Expect to be respected if you decide to join the gang, because the rule of respect is held highest of the few rules that apply. Tradgang.com has a zero tolerance for disrespect directed to anyone. If you want to disagree, then please do so in an adult manner. Debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another, but it must be done in an honorable fashion.

If you see a disrespectful comment, circle it so we can all see it. Just because someone is proven wrong, or that they are making up what they think are facts, is not disrespectful. The only disrespect I see is the disrespect to both Howard Hill and John Schulz by people make believing they know something they do not.

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