shot trigger

[Roy from Pa]

It was a reminder!
Your comments caused another thread to be closed a day or 2 ago.

[David Phillips]

“Among the thousands of archery friends and admirers of my late husband Howard Hill,if I were picking one to describe and explain Howard’s methods in detail, I know no one who I would trust to do so correctly fully and in detail as I do John Schulz”.

That’s a quote from Howard Hills wife. It pretty much sums it up. It excludes every other person that shot with Hill, watched him shoot or read his book, including anyone on this forum or any forum, shooting tournament or anywhere else. Sometimes facts are hard to accept...but that doesn’t change the facts.

[smag]

Nice, stick with it. See you at the Howard Hill. I will be in the shootdown hard to miss this guy in a crowd. In fact last two years I think I been #1 and #2. Was not using John Shultz's method circa 1952 either. Yeah, I make my bows and their not Hill Style either.

Dont get this thread closed please Dave.

HH~

[David Phillips]

The only reason I’d see where this thread would be closed, would be some hurt feelings by people making up stories.

I’d call your attention to the original reason for the thread. How many people actually made a contribution to the original question, or the follow up questions? All I see is several people taking the thread on a side tangent with easily proven false comments. I also can’t help but notice with all theses self proclaimed experts no one else had an answer to the original question, or the questions to the false comments afterwards.

Hopefully anyone with any interest in Howard Hill or how he shot  a bow would see thru the ramblings of someone that doesn’t even shoot a Hill style bow, never knew Hill, never shot with Hill and makes up his own stories about Hill?

 Some people go on forums and make false comments about a subject they don’t know anything about. Some people stick to the facts, and can back up their comments with facts. I guess that’s just the difference in people.

Since you don’t mind spending time taking a thread completely off topic and have no answers to either the original question or my follow up questions. Maybe you can take the 10 seconds to tell everyone how long you spent “trying” to learn the Schulz shooting method, taught by Howard Hill?

[Terry Green]

This might help.

http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=131700.0

[Terry Green]

Smag, no disrespect, but this is a bowhunting forum.

Shoots are great, fun, and worthy practice....but not the main focus here.

 And, I know a WHOLE LOT of instinctive shooters that constantly bring dead shite into camp. Most of them don't compete against other bowhunters, they congratulate them.

Just stay respectful, that's all we ask... Well, besides staying on topic. 

[Terry Green]

Btw, I hate typing on phones 

[Terry Green]

Dave,

If you have proper alignment, the "Magic T" I call it, your draw length should not deviate on up or down shots if you bend at the waist.  Form is from the waist up. 

I demonstrate this on the Bowhunters of Tradgang DVD, along with incorporating a double anchor for more solidity.

There's a lot of info on the form clock thread in the shooters forum about the "Magic T" aka proper alignment.

 

[David Phillips]

Dave,

If you have proper alignment, the "Magic T" I call it, your draw length should not deviate on up or down shots if you bend at the waist.  Form is from the waist up. 

I demonstrate this on the Bowhunters of Tradgang DVD, along with incorporating a double anchor for more solidity.

There's a lot of info on the form clock thread in the shooters forum about the "Magic T" aka proper alignment.

 

I have no problems with draw length, form or hitting what I’m shooting at. I’m also not the one asking questions about shooting. I answered the OPs question about using a broadhead as a draw check or trigger. There is no possible way I could care any less about how anyone else does it. I use the same style Schulz was taught by Howard Hill. If someone has a different style or way of doing things that’s fine with me.  Why some people get so upset about instinctive shooting or Hills style of shooting I do not know as I am not a psychiatrist.

A few hundred people have viewed this thread and not a single person answered the OPs question except me, the rest took it off on another tangent.  Wouldn’t it be better to start their on thread on a separate topic that do not include the names Hill or Schulz so as not to upset themselves?

I do not take or ask shooting advice from anyone that cannot out shoot the person I am currently taking Instruction from. So unless you can prove to be a better shot than Howard Hill or John Schulz I’m not interested.

Maybe someone should delete this thread. I cannot remember the last time I’ve seen a topic go this far off the rails and into the ditch. I’m guessing the OP by now either is more confused than ever or has come to the point where he doesn’t care about a broadhead used as a trigger, I know I am.

[Terry Green]

David, you did make a statement about shooting or I wouldn't have replied to you.

Since there seems to be constant issues, maybe Tradgang isn't for you.

[smag]

This guy.

Draw checks are good for keeping consistant when one has issues keeping DL at anchor.

Bowhunting, I am quite sure I have shot more Whitetails than John Shultz ever dreamed of as they were about gone and some states had no seasons for them in the 1950's and only one deer limits in 60's.

Since Oct 1st 2015 I have taken 68 whitetails with selfbow almost exclusively. Take 8-10 of them every year and took 20 one of those years. When it comes to shooting game with a primitive bow and hunting i know maybe a couple guys in nation that have more harvests than myself i that time. So, I Know a pinch about bow hunting, I think.

Now, Shultz was a swing draw and fantastic shooter. Was his short infomercials. Some of his techniques were old for the time they were made. They were shooting game at that time at ranges from 50-100yds. Took quivers of arrows to a hunt. These methods ar just not accepted today by any bow hunters. They shot at running game. Just not accepted as ethical method. Times were different and I can appreciate this.

I watched got instruction by Dwight Evens in baseball and throwing. Did not make me a world class MLB right fielder.

Shawn Magyar~
RLTW

[BAK]

I would think using the back of the broadhead as a trigger would work fine if you need such a triggering mechanism.  No different than a clicker for those who need such.  At hunting distances seems it would be rather superfluous.  Don't know if Howard Hill did it or not, and since there was only one Howard Hill it really doesn't matter.  Just keep slinging them..

[YosemiteSam]

Back of the broadhead works okay as long as your hand is nowhere near the cutting edges when you drop the string.

My biggest challenge was doing this with field points.  If I do my arrows well and make a nice, easy transition between the shaft and the point, then I can barely feel the back of the point at all -- it's all the same by feel.  When I used 11/32 points on 5/16 arrows, it was much easier.  But 11/32 points on 11/32 shafts was so smooth that I would sometimes imagine that I was feeling the point when, in fact, I wasn't quite there.

After a while, I just gave up and put clickers on everything.  But I have an especially bad case of target panic

[the rifleman]

Broadhead set up to touch bowhand, i believe can be a very effective release trigger ( as well as a draw check).  Just don't try it w magnus stingers sharpened on the backside.  I have enough trouble getting my arrows really well tuned at whatever length they tell me they need to be.
As Yosemite said clickers are another alternative.  As is feather to nose.  They all seem to have their pros and cons to me.
My personal trigger ( and i alternate shooting with and without it) is a micro electric button that clicks when pushed.  I keep it in the finger tip of a bowhand glove.  I've found it very effective at helping me make a calm shot during a clutch situation like a 3d shoot or deer.  Fun to try different things just to see what works best for you.

[The Whittler]

I did it with wood arrows and it worked great, just don't get too excited and over draw. :-)

[Flingblade]

Overdrawing and popping the nock off the string is my primary concern with this trigger and the main reason I haven't yet given it a chance.  I shoot a clicker and sometimes I overdraw at first, the clicker goes off and I have to let down slightly to reset the clicker before executing the shot.  Those that use this trigger, has this ever been a problem?  The other concern I have with this is that I will wear a glove later in the season on my bow hand. I keep my string hand in a pocket with a hand warmer but on my bow hand I wear a glove.  Sometimes it is a thin glove and when really cold it is a wool glomitt.  Anyone have an issue using this trigger with a glove on or do you just always shoot bare handed?  I've tried a bunch of different triggers including feather to nose, tab sear and handy clicker but I always come back to the limb mounted clicker.  This thread; although it veered, has me wanting to give this type of trigger a try.   

[Overspined]

I named my Hill style bow model a “split vision longbow” after the way hill aimed, and he described this method in one of his books. Can you say he shot instinctively? Gap? Split vision? I think I’d say it would be rather difficult to perfectly describe unless it was shot by shot, situation dependent. His longbows were a part of him. You can usually tell what’s up each shot in the videos. Hard to gap shoot coins flipped in the air.

HILL was LEFT EYE DOMINANT SHOOTING RIGHTY.......IMPRESSIVE !!

Anyone tried this Hill style? I’ll tell you right now, I’m sure this is NOT a good basis for “instinct” and few would ever rival that ability.

Maybe it was just he was so stone cold good, that it’s actually hard to say he did only one thing.

Some guys just HAVE “IT”.  A mastery of a subject or skill. They can describe it but few can match or copy “IT”.

Hills descriptions are good, Schulz descriptions and video is good, but to actually get to that level of proficiency, the truth is not many do. The stories alone are basically almost unbelievable, but so awesome. It’s what makes him the Legend.

Using the back of the broadhead seems reasonable, Hill describes it as well.

With a Hill style longbow, the difference in the amount of limb tip movement is very small where draw lengths differ.  So consistency is not hard to obtain without using an arrow point to finger... so if you use a 68” bow, draw 27.5”, then the next shot you draw 28”....the difference in limb tip movement and velocity will be extremely small. It’s automatically a forgiving bow to shoot..

Is there a difference, yes, a couple fps, but typically not enough to blow a shot.

Hill shot super heavy bows. Twice my draw weight. The arrows were screaming, makes arrow drop less of an issue as they weren’t all that concerned with FOC or arrow weight unless going after the more dangerous game.

[the rifleman]

Flingblade---( great handle by the way!) Good point on the nock popping of the string and something to be cautious of.  I once saw a guy stringwalking press the nock into his glasses and pop it off the string, dry firing his bow.
Overspined--- i shot exactly that way-- left eye dominant and right handed.  Anything i shot at that way was in big trouble--- as long as it was 2 or 3 feet to the left of where i was aiming.  It never worked for me and i started shooting left handed.  I always wondered how someone made this work.

[Sam McMichael]

With the amount of bickering so far along the way, it is a little difficult to remember that the original question was about who finds that using the back of the broadhead as a shot trigger is helpful.

[Overspined]

I’m not good at using all these psycho triggers.  I’ve tried the broadhead to finger thing, I find I draw different lengths depending on my body position, shooting down, flat, on my knees etc. so it made it weird. I think it would be cool tho.