Hickory selfbow build along

[shawn]

I have some good news, and I also have a problem. First for the good news. I figured out how to select the Macro setting on my camera. Now I can take the pictures of the overlays that I could not yesterday.

 
 
Elk antler overlay.

Now for the bad news. The rawhide is starting to lift in a few places. Here are some pics of what I am talking about.
 
 
 
It appears to only be lifting at the edges shown.

 
Is this colorization normal?

I am wondering if I should have scraped the rawhide prior to soaking in the warm water.

I figure I have a few of options.
1) Get a syringe and apply glue to lifted area and wrap.
2) Remove backing, scrape of existing glue on back of bow, and try again with my other set of rawhide.
3) I am not too sure about this one, but bevel the edge of the bow to remove lifted area.
Are there any other options?

I will wait for input from some of the resident experts before going any further with this project. I am in no hurry to mess this up.

Shawn

[shawn]

TTT

[John Scifres]

Moisten the lifted area a bit just to soften some.  Do not soak it.  Let it air dry for a few minutes.  Squirt superglue in between hide and bow.  Clamp well.  I have done this many times and never had a problem.  It works with sinew too.

[Lost Arra]

Shawn: on one of my recent hickory bows I had nocks cut exactly like yours. Thin distinct groove cut on the side of the limb. When I was shooting the bow in I kept hearing or feeling this very slight "tic" which obviously makes a bow builder flinch. Turns out it was the string loop flipping over that outer "lip" on the side of the limb as I reached full draw. Sanding off the outer lip fixed the problem.

[John Scifres]

Missed the coloration question.  Looks to me like the glue is not dry????

[Linc]

Shawn, The coloration is nothing to worry about.I've had that on a few backings.  

[shawn]

Lost Arra - Thanks for the input on the grooves. I was planning on doing a little more work on the grooves prior to stringing the bow. I will take care of that lip.

When I get the lifting issue resolved, I may go ahead and apply some snake skins over the rawhide. I do not like how bright the back of the bow looks. That can be taken care of later on in this project.

Thanks again for input Lost, John, and Linc!!!

Shawn

[Walt Francis]

Shawn, Like Linc said the coloration shouldn't be any problem.  I had that happen a few times when using calf rawhide because it was so thick.  You don't need much rawhide to protect the bow and the bow will perform better with less weight on the limbs. I thin my rawhide down with a palm sander and cabinet scraper until I am able to see through it.

[Bowman0202]

Great thread. Thanks. I have two hickory staves I got last year, intend to use this as help.  

Shawn, your wood shop is entirely too neat. LOL:)

[shawn]

I got some time last night to try to remedy the lifting issue. It did not take too long for me to realize that the rawhide was not going to adhere to the back of the bow. As a matter of fact, it pealed right off. I learned a couple of things from this experience.

1) As Walt said, thin the rawhide down until you can see through it. The thicker areas of the rawhide just did not adhere as well as the thinner areas.

2)I wiped down the back of the bow to remove any dirt/particles, but I did not wipe down the rawhide. The experts can correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems logical that one should also wipe down the rawhide.

I tried to remove the glue and thick portions from the rawhide. That did not work so well. I ended up tearing the rawhide. I am pretty sure I can use it on a shorter bow sometime in the future. I was able to get most of the glue removed from the back of the bow. I still have a little more sanding to do. The toothing plane sure did a good job. There was no pealing the glue from the stave. I would still like to back this bow. I am going to back it with some snakeskins. I will need to check out the TradGang sponsors and order a set from one of them.

In the meantime, I will continue removing the glue from the back of the bow. When that is finished, I will attach a long string and start the tillering process. I will probably not get a chance to get back to the bow until Friday evening.

I can't say that I am too happy about the rawhide not working out, but it is a good learning experience. That is what this whole build along is all about.

Bowman0202, it looks like I got you fooled. It is what is outside the picture that constitutes a messy shop.    

Shawn

[elk ninja]

Looking good Shawn.  Keep it up, I am looking forward to seeing this bow!
Mike

[Lost Arra]

Shawn: did you soak the rawhide in water until it became limp before gluing? I am assuming you did if you used Ferret's website but I can't tell from your photos.

What about a thin coat of glue on the damp limp rawhide surface before applying it?

[shawn]

The rawhide was soaked prior to attaching to the bow. I did not apply a thin coat of glue to the rawhide. I think the biggest problem was not scraping and cleaning the rawhide prior to glue-up.

I did order snakeskins and TB4 from Pine Hollow. They should add a nice touch to this project.

Appreciating everyones input!!!

Shawn

[ChristopherO]

My guess is that the rubber didn't let the titebond set up fast enough.  No air flow.  On my laminated bows where there wasn't a space between wrappings the excess glue was still wet after 24 hours.  
I made rawhide out of last season's deer and both had coloration like that.  I will use my orbital sander to clean and thin before I use it to back a bow but deer hide dries very thin to begin with.
Looking forward to seeing it finished.

[shawn]

I did not get to do a whole lot on my bow today. I was too busy digging in the yard. When I finally got time to work on the bow, I was just too worn out. I do not need to make any stupid mistakes because I was too tired to think straight.

I attached a long string to the bow and put her on the tillering tree. Here is what I saw.
 
This is with the bow being drawn about 4". It bends a little, but I have a long way to go.

I broke out my Tillering Gizmo and got to work making shavings.
Here is what she looks like pulling 6" at 50 pounds.
 
She is definitely stiff at the fades.

I will try to do some more work on her in the morning.

Be sure to call your mother tomorrow and wish her a Happy Mothers Day.

Shawn

[Linc]

Shawn, At this stage it looks to be bending the way that it should be bending.I wouldn't mess with the fades just yet.Just take off full length till you get them bending some more.  

[shawn]

Have not gotten very far on this project. I was having some scraper issues. I got that resolved yesterday. I hope to get back to it Thursday. I have a meeting tonight. The snakeskins I ordered from arrived yesterday. I can not wait to put them on the bow. I will probably put them on Saturday night. I have to work nights Sunday through Tuesday, so that will give the glue plenty of time to set. I have to go overseas for a couple of weeks in June, so I am hoping to complete this bow prior to my departure. That being said, I will not rush to make the June deadline. I have ruined a couple of bows getting myself in a hurry. I will take it slow and get it rightthis time around. I will post some more pictures when I can show a little more progress. She has a ways to go before she can be called a bow.

Shawn

[Lost Arra]

Shawn: I can't tell from your last post if you are going to put the snakeskins on before the bow is tillered or after.

With the cost of skins I don't apply the them until the bow is essentially complete and I've shot about a hundred arrows. Then I put the skins on, finish sanding and apply the finish coats of tru oil or poly or whatever.

If this was your plan, I apologize for sounding like a know-it-all       but snakeskins are really just a decoration and will not protect the back of your bow like rawhide.

[shawn]

I am putting the snakeskins on for the purpose of having it in this build-along. I have never done one before, and figured any lesson I learn can be passed on to folks reading this post. I was planning on putting them on Saturday, but will wait until the bow is essentially complete per Lost Arras' suggestion.

Tillering will continue today or friday.

I appreciate the advice and encouragement from my TradGang family.

Shawn

[shawn]

She is starting to bend!!!

Prior to putting the bow on the tillering tree, I checked the moisture content. It is at 8%. Not much humidity here in Boise.

 
The bow is pulling 52pounds at 24". According to the tillering gizmo, it is also bending evenly. You may notice that I also put a string on the bow. It is braced at 3.5".

Now for some more questions.
I would like for this bow to be pulling 50pounds at 28" when I am finished. Should I start softening up the edges of the limbs now?  

Would this be a good time to start using sandpaper instead of the scraper?

This is starting to get really exciting for me. I should be starting to launch some arrows pretty soon.

More to come....

Shawn