Learning to build ASLs

[boxerboxer]

I've been interested in learning to build bows of various types for a while now, but the style I'm most interested in is a glass laminated ASL. A few questions:

1. Is there any reason not to go down this route for a first build?

2. Most of the resources I've found on building glass bows have been focused on R/D longbows. Are there any books or other resources I should look at geared toward hill style bows?

3. I found a post where a user here (John something maybe?) Recorded specs for some of his bows and a few Howard Hill models as well in terms of lam/glass/stack thickness, taper, width, etc, so I have that to go on, but wonder if anyone else has any lists that would make a good reference.

4. Would a simple straight form would be a good place to start? Does anyone have pictures/specs on what form they use for ASLs?

I've spent some time reading build threads for various bows and watching YouTube videos and feel like I have enough info to stumble through it, but if there's any advice you have that may not have come up watching those videos I'm all ears. Kenny's website looks like a good place to find materials, although by the time I buy just the materials for an ASL I'm spending just about the same as for his R/D kit that included form templates so maybe I ought to just start with that, I don't know. Any advice is welcome.

[Longcruise]

1. Is there any reason not to go down this route for a first build?

No reason not to.   It's a good first choice.

  2. Most of the resources I've found on building glass bows have been focused on R/D longbows. Are there any books or other resources I should look at geared toward hill style bows?

If there is I'm not sure what the reference would be.  Someone else will probably have something.

3. I found a post where a user here (John something maybe?) Recorded specs for some of his bows and a few Howard Hill models as well in terms of lam/glass/stack thickness, taper, width, etc, so I have that to go on, but wonder if anyone else has any lists that would make a good reference.

"ASL" and "Hill style" covers a lot of territory which is a little surprising given that it's a fairly simple design or look.  For a starter,  my suggestion is to describe the your vision of the style and we can make suggestions on stack,  taper, etc.

4. Would a simple straight form would be a good place to start? Does anyone have pictures/specs on what form they use for ASLs?

A straight form would be a good choice.   

[Doug in MN]

Jack Harrison's book sold by Todd Smith best resource I can think of, very detailed link below but is on the Home page here as well.
https://toddsmithco.com/ scroll to the bottom of the page.

[Flem]

Excellent choice   I know there are some books on the subject. Graff has one folks seem to like. Schulz also, but they are impossible to find. Miller has a book, but I don't know if it has building info.
All you need is a flat board and some clamps for your first build. These bows are as simple as they get to lay-up. if you are going to cut your riser with a band saw, save the off-cuts for clamping cauls or make some for the ramps. I think thats the only "special" tool you will need.
As far as specs go, figure out what length, poundage, design and materials you plan on using and we might be able to give some guidance. Otherwise the potential variables are infinite

Honestly the books on this subject are 90% hot air to justify the expense of publishing and to stroke some egos. You just need to slap some wood and glass together and start grinding. The questions that need to be answered will become obvious as you progress with the project.

[Longcruise]

For the quick and simple route, go to Bingham Projects site and order their instructions and design material for a one piece longbow.   It's a start and thousands have been built.   The best advice from Bingham is don't make your first bow in your own design.   

[boxerboxer]

"ASL" and "Hill style" covers a lot of territory which is a little surprising given that it's a fairly simple design or look.  For a starter,  my suggestion is to describe the your vision of the style and we can make suggestions on stack,  taper, etc.

That's a good point. I really like the ASLs that Erik Hoff's (St. Patrick Lake Longbows) American Styk and Steve Turay's (Northern Mist Longbows) Classic and American.

I currently shoot a recurve that's 46# at my 29.5" draw. I would like to keep it in that 45-50# ballpark. I would guess I should go 68" or maybe even longer. In case it makes much difference in design I prefer to shoot three under.

As far as looks, I eventually want to make one with nice veneers but not before I know how to make one that shoots nice. Dark brown riser, maple lams, green glass front and grey glass back with a dark brown leather riser looks very good to me. Probably start with a straight grip since I don't know what grip I like and I could always pop the leather off and remove some material if I wanted to.

[boxerboxer]

For the quick and simple route, go to Bingham Projects site and order their instructions and design material for a one piece longbow.   It's a start and thousands have been built.   The best advice from Bingham is don't make your first bow in your own design.

If Bingham had an ASL kit I'd probably go that route, but as far as I can tell those kits have a lot of stuff I don't really need unless I'm doing a bow with limbs that aren't straight. I certainly will make sure that I'm using design specs from somebody that knows what they're doing. It's common sense advice, but well worth mentioning.

[Longcruise]

If Bingham had an ASL kit I'd probably go that route, .....

They have a 68" ASL style flat form bow.  Their site is not very user friendly.  :(

Here's a link where you can check out the instructional material.   Look for the 68" longbow.     https://binghamprojects.com/product-category/shop-bingham-projects/bow-building-supplies/traditional-bow-instructional-material/

You can order a kit that will Create a predetermined draw weight or use their weight chart to determine stack and order what you need from any supplier.   

You won't need an oven and I suggest you quiz here on form building and lay up tips.

You don't want to be this guy.

[Flem]

What are the tools and machinery you have for your project?

[boxerboxer]

If Bingham had an ASL kit I'd probably go that route, .....

They have a 68" ASL style flat form bow.  Their site is not very user friendly.  :(

Here's a link where you can check out the instructional material.   Look for the 68" longbow.     https://binghamprojects.com/product-category/shop-bingham-projects/bow-building-supplies/traditional-bow-instructional-material/

You can order a kit that will Create a predetermined draw weight or use their weight chart to determine stack and order what you need from any supplier.   

You won't need an oven and I suggest you quiz here on form building and lay up tips.

You don't want to be this guy.

I called Kenny earlier and he referred me to the same one. Although it's a flat longbow, it's not really what I'm looking for design wise. Based on the stack chart for that bow and the numbers I've seen for HH bows in the style I want to build I'm guessing the width at fadeouts is more than I want it to be. Also the kit has extras that I don't think really add a lot of value for what I'm doing and I'd rather order from Kenny, nothing against Bingham. I'll find as many sample specs as I can and once I think I know what I want I'll post to get my idea vetted before I glue anything up.

[Roy from Pa]

You can't go wrong ordering from Kenny.....

[Longcruise]

You can't go wrong ordering from Kenny.....

Ditto.  That's why I suggested the instructionals and weight chart.  That way you can order where you please.  And Kenny is great source of materials.

[Longcruise]

At one time canopyboy posted extensive specs on a number of long bows from various sources including I think some Hills.  Maybe he will see this and drop by.  I can give you specs for a bow if you like.

[boxerboxer]

At one time canopyboy posted extensive specs on a number of long bows from various sources including I think some Hills.  Maybe he will see this and drop by.  I can give you specs for a bow if you like.

I shot him a message. If you've got specs send them my way, by all means.

[boxerboxer]

What are the tools and machinery you have for your project?

I have access to my father in law's cabinet making shop, which has all manner of saws, sanders, a planer, etc. Of particular relevance are the band saw and both belt and drum sanders and we both have lots of clamps. I don't have much for relevant hand tools other than a cheap round file so I may need to buy some things, although a friend who used to build a lot of selfbows has offered to lend me tools to make sure I like building bows before I get in too deep.

[williwaw]

but not before I know how to make one that shoots nice.

getting the limbs tillered correctly goes a long way towards getting it to shoot nice, and your best help is  right here when the time comes.

Based on the stack chart for that bow and the numbers I've seen for HH bows in the style I want to build I'm guessing the width at fadeouts is more than I want it to be.

roughing out the width, once the bow epoxy is cured, leaves some room to make weight, so plan to keep it full width out of the form.

going thinner on the stack and finishing out with a bow a bit wider than expected would be preferable to starting with too much stack height .  just my two cents for a first bow

[Flem]

You can make anything you want with that access You should buy a grinding sled from Kenny and mill your own lams. Everything else is low tech with a basic Hill style. Maple is a great choice for limbs.
How you planning on squeezing everything together?

[boxerboxer]

You can make anything you want with that access You should buy a grinding sled from Kenny and mill your own lams. Everything else is low tech with a basic Hill style. Maple is a great choice for limbs.
How you planning on squeezing everything together?

So to make a lam with 0.001"/1" taper I would take a piece slightly thicker than the lam butt thickness I want, put it on the 0.001" sled, run it through the planer, then check butt thickness (can I use a digital caliper, which I have, or do I need a micrometer) and keep planing til target butt thickness?

To squeeze everything together I was thinking I could use a flat board as bottom form and some clamps with cauls for the top.

[evgb127]

I recommend you buy American Longbow by Stephen Graf.  You can get it on Amazon.

Also, 7 Lakes has a cool build along here:

https://m.imgur.com/a/E9nFD

[jsweka]

If I wanted a 69" 45 - 50# ASL  here's what I would do.

14" riser
From back to belly:
0.050 glass
0.100 butt thickness 0.002 taper lam
0.100 butt thickness 0.002 taper lam
0.100 butt thickness 0.001 taper lam
0.085 thickness parallel lam
0.050 glass

Total stack thickness = 0.485

Limb width = 1 1/8" from the center of the bow out 14" on each limb, and then tapering to 1/2" at the string grooves.

Send Kenny M an email with your material list.  Unless you're building a lot of bows, I think you're better off just buying lams rather than grinding your own (but I'm a lazy person by nature).