Arrows- weight,tune,flight???

[craigski]

New to this stick game. Could use some help.
Current set up.
Bear Kodak 40# at 28
Draw length 29 3/4
Gold tip traditional classic 400 full length at this point. Bare shafts seem weak but changing tip weight to 100 grain does not seem to help.
100 grain brass insert and 150-175 grain heads.
Shooting off shelf.
Any advice is appreciated

[McDave]

My first guess would be a false weak, where the shaft is really too stiff, but recoils off the strike plate and shows nock-left (RH shooter).  At your draw length, you should be pulling about 45#.  I would guess a .500 spine shaft with a 175 grain point would be in the ball park.  If you want EFOC, your .400 with a much heavier point, 250-350 grains, might also work.

Edit:  on re-reading your post, it appears you're already there on EFOC, so ignore what I said about that.  But a .500 spine shaft with 200-250 up front might still be worth a try.

[Orion]

I agree with McDave as edited. 500s should do it.

[old_goat2]

What's your brace height, nock height, do you have double nock point? Lot of new guys really grip the bow hard, I've read that can show false weak, also make sure you don't have a lot of tension in your draw side wrist. Sometimes helpful to shoot bareshaft with the bow completely vertical and it's also advantageous to have some really heavy tips like 200, 250 and 300 around to throw on and see if stuff cleans up, arrow might fly in a big arc but it's a good diagnostic

[Mike Malvaini]

Yes Goat, that's a form issue not a spine.  Need to fix the form issue if that is the case and a lot of issues will become moot.

[Alexander Traditional]

Your going to need 600 spine in my opinion.

[craigski]

This is sounding helpful. Ok now same shaft same draw length only difference is bear grizzly 50# at 28. Same result . To answer the brace height question 7 3/4 on the grizzly is 8 inches. Single nock point on both shoot split finger on both. Nock point set about 1/4 high.

[McDave]

If you're measuring from square to the bottom of the string nock, 1/4” seems very low to me.  Could be a part of your problem.

[old_goat2]

If you're measuring from square to the bottom of the arrow, 1/4” seems very low to me.  Could be a part of your problem.

I've tuned a lot of bows, almost every single one liked 5/8 nock height, especially shooting split! Simple check would be too nock over the nock point and see if it changes favorably, I also highly recommend two nock points and nock in between, usually isn't as big a deal shooting split finger, but I've seen guys just pull their freaking hair out shooting three under with one nock point trying to figure out their arrow flight, just one of those things, I don't even mess around with anymore and put two nock points on! If you don't have an extra, you can wrap some masking tape or tie some dental floss on etc, till you get tuned and then do something permanent

[Lori]

Nocking point height can be confusing, from skinny arrows to tapered arrows to fat arrows. We always go with the measurement to the top of a nocking point UNDER the arrow. I like two myself, but measured one from the bow square s the bottom. What's his name always goes with just one under the arrow. 1/8 to 3/16 " up from square on my bows, depending on the bow. Sometimes folks can torque things when going for an extra long draw. One that I get caught doing, the draw handstand turns palm down at anchor, that will affect tuning. Lar always makes the bottom out of serving thread, don't get it, but he uses a piece of a Bic pen to make the knot. Then he screws it up or down to get the best arrow flight and then pits a drops of glue on it.

[smokin joe]

I shoot very close to your specifications. My set up is 45# at 29"

I shoot a 29.5" 500 shaft with a 250 grains up front (125 grain brass insert and a 125 grain head, for example). My arrows fly like laser beams.

I would agree with McDave. Somewhere around 200-250 grains of total of upfront weight should get you shooting well.

As others have said, your nock point seems low, but I don't know how you are measuring it.

[craigski]

Tried some 500 that I had for my kids compound. Seem to be flying the same so it has to be multiple factors. Guess I need to find a local guy who is familiar with trad hear and have them watch and critique. Fun to watch the arrows fly but a lot more fun if they go where you look😁👍. Thanks all and hopefully I can get it all together in short order.

[BAK]

9 out of 10 times I see posting like this the arrows chosen are way overspined, and their almost always carbon.  40 pound bow-29.5" draw = 44 pound draw shows a .600 spined shaft.   

[Orion]

Did you have 200-250 grains up front in the 500s you tried?  Given that you're new at this, there's a good chance your problem is your form, not the arrow. 

[Wudstix]

Have someone watch you shoot even video it for critique.

[craigski]

Yep 200 up front. I would bet it is my form .

[Tomas Stieber]

Hang that Grizzly on the wall until you get things straightened out with your Kodiak. 600s for your  Kodiak and raise the nock height to 3/8ths or a bit higher. Then buy your self a good book on shooting a stick bow. Shooting traditional bows is a bit complicated, that's why compounds were invented.

[Bugguy1511]

Try adding a bear weather rest. It will help with flight if your release isn’t the best! Also I shoot 47 @ 29 with 400 spine arrow cut to 30.5 with 360 grains up front so I’d have to agree with the fact that you’re a bit overspined. If you don’t want to shoot a heavier arrow you’ll want to jump to a 500 or 600 spine.

[craigski]

Was considering putting a feather rest onto the bow to try and clean up flight. Any one have any insight on them?

[McDave]

I have a couple of bows where the feather rest works better than a shelf rest, like my original ‘59 Kodiak, that was originally made with a feather rest in mind.

I think the normal transition, at least for me, would be to have a bow where nothing else seems to work, and finally a feather rest seems to solve the problem.  I like shooting off the shelf better than from a feather rest, so shooting off the shelf would be my first choice.