My Version of a Target Bow...

[kennym]

No , thinking the wedge can gently bend a little more instead of over a sharp corner on most bows. Should smooth things up a little? Like just a shade more working limb?

[Shredd]

  That's what I thought you were thinking...  But that's not the case with this bow...  You should try it...  I am gonna try something similar to that but a bit different...

[Roy from Pa]

So when is the next 3D shoot, Rich?

[Shredd]

 Tomorrow... Saturday... 

 It is a lower poundage and I have to aim higher on this bow so the different yardages could throw me off... Plus the arrow comes out of this bow a little nock high... I hate that chit...  Does anyone know why??  I believe it's tiller...  A certain kind tiller dealing with limb thickness or something... In the past I tried positive and negative tiller and still get nock high coming out of the bow... Most of my bows the arrow comes straight out or even a hair nock low in which I like for better arrow flight...

  Maybe I have to mess around with that tillering thing that you do, Roy...  Do you get bows that are a 1/4 " or more pos or neg. tiller to get the bow to shoot right... To me, I think the bow would look funny being that much off from even tiller...

  I was just thinking... Maybe I should mess with rest height...

[Roy from Pa]

Most times it is the tiller that causes that.

I tiller for equal limb timing and every bow I make shoots a straight arrow when I set my arrow nock at 3/8th above level, because that is how my tiller tree is setup assuming I will set the nock 3/8th high. If a bow tillered for say a 1/4" positive tiller, then I would need to raise or lower the arrow nocking point to get good arrow flight. And most times it is the tiller and almost impossible to eliminate nock high arrows.

I know what you mean about a bows tiller looking funny, but unless it's way off it hardly noticeable. And I very seldom have a bow come out like that. Take one of your older bows that may have the high nock problem and re-tiller it for equal limb timing with a predetermined nocking point. I'll bet the high nock arrow flight will go away.

How far above bow center do you place your arrow shelf? I used to do 2" which was a lot, now the past 2 bows I've made, I measured up 1.25" above center and those 2 bows were a dream to tiller.

Also you could put on a sticky back arrow rest a tad above the arrow shelf and I'd bet that fixes the nock high arrow flight. Can't hurt to try. An elevated rest yields a lot better arrow flight. Those sticky rest will peel right back off...

Good luck tomorrow...

[Shredd]

  Thanks...

  I shimmed the bottom limb... Now has 1/4" pos. tiller... No difference... Adjusting the tiller like that, I believe only shifts the grip angle(riser angle) and changes how the grip is gonna feel in your hand...  I am gonna try switching top and bottom limbs...  I got a theory that even if the limbs a bending nice and evenly, if one limb is slightly thicker than the other it will return faster...

   These limbs are pretty evenly tiller... May have a 1/16th pos...

[Roy from Pa]

if one limb is slightly thicker than the other it will return faster...

Exactly and that can cause nock high arrow flight, Just like a tire that is out of balance reacts, thus why I tiller for equal limb timing.

I edited the above post a tad, read it again.

[Shredd]

Good stuff, Thanks...  I will have to put a good bow on the tree and have to compare differences with one that shoots nock high...

  I used to go 1 1/4" And now 1 3/8"... I cant my shelf in so it is about 1 5/16" plus 1/16" leather rest...

[Roy from Pa]

Cool, and try this.

Put a line or piece of tape straight vertically down from your tiller rope connection on the bow string and see how the pull rope tracks when you pull it.

Notice how in the video below the pull rope tracks the line, that means both limbs are bending equally. " Limb Timed "

Then imagine how that pull rope would track if I moved it say an inch left or right and pulled the bow down?

[mmattockx]

Plus the arrow comes out of this bow a little nock high... I hate that chit...  Does anyone know why??  I believe it's tiller... 

This may be a stupid question, but moving your nocking point doesn't change that?


Mark

[B-JS]

Did i miss the Arrow Rest?
You are Shooting Vanes of the Shelf?

If i shoot Vanes of the Shelf, the arrows fly Loopings.

[Roy from Pa]

Yup, vanes and a less than perfect release can cause a little sloppy arrow flight.

But Rich is talking about a constant high nock flying arrow from a couple bows.

We mentioned a stick on rest a few posts up and I believe he is going to try one.

[Longcruise]

He has a groove in his rest for the vane to pass.

[Roy from Pa]

I gotta wonder how that works with archers paradox?

[Shredd]

  Yeah Roy... We talked about it a while back... I am all set up for it... This may be the time when it really sinks in... ( when I see a difference between two bows and how they shoot)...  I will let you know what I find...

   The slot on my shelf is to shoot vanes...  I get true arrow flight with that setup...  Otherwise there would be no way that I could hit the bullseye...

[Roy from Pa]

Looking forward to see how it works out, Rich.

You definitely are hitting the bullseye regularly.

Good luck at the shoot today.

[Shredd]

  Yeah...  Hitting the Bullseye....  This is the 3rd Robin hood this week..!!!     I guess it may be time to start shooting at separate targets...   

   I put my bow up on my tillering board...  I know that you like to  (and schooled me) put the hook where your middle finger would be for three under and split finger...  I am trying something a little different I simply centered my bow, leveled it so that the bow string is perfectly level and 90* to the rope...  I put the hook in the center of the string...  When I pulled on the rope the hook went a hair south and the and the top limb was a little bit lower than the bottom limb...  Which means when the string returns to brace the arrow nock would be going in a upward angle giving you nock high...  I put my good shooting  RD bow on the tree and the hook went straight down the line with the tips pretty even...

     So I switched the top limb with the bottom limb on the riser and it seems to be having a lot better arrow flight...   

   After all these years and listening to you and other bowyers with there ideas on tillering...  I think I finally got this tiller thing figured out...  I hope...  It's always been kind of a mystery to me and I always went with even or 1/16" positive tiller...  I think I will be using a method similar to yours but slightly different...  When I experiment with it, make sure it is working right and get it wired I will post my method...

   Thanks Roy...

[Roy from Pa]

Welcome Rich...

Cool, but think about this.

You pulled that bow at the center, that is not where you really will be pulling it when you shoot it.

Your middle finger on your draw hand will probably be an inch higher on the string from center, which means you would be pulling even more on the top limb, which will make it bend even more and the bottom even less...

Ya dig?

[willi]

Your middle finger on your draw hand will probably be an inch higher on the string from center, which means you would be pulling even more on the top limb

that makes sense, but.....


In Riches set up, he said 

I am trying something a little different I simply centered my bow

   in addition to centering the hook on the string, so maybe it was a wash?


Roy,
when you draw your line down the wall from the hook on the string (which is also your middle finger pressure point)

do you also account for how the bow grip lies/presses into the hand? in your video, it  looks like you would need quite a bit of heeling on the grip to approximate the cradle setup on your tree.
(or perhaps this is the way you grip the handle in the video?)

[Shredd]

  Roy I totally get your method and it makes sense...  I shoot 3 under and I just measured where my middle finger is and it is exactly in the middle of the string...   It so happens that we are on the same page...      Imagine that...

  I was just gonna use the even tiller mark as a base line and go from there...  Might end up with your method after all...


  Willi... I am assuming you would have to adjust the tiller for different hand grips...  It so happens that the pressure of my grip and where I grip the string are very close to center and the bow is dead even tiller... That's probably why my RD shoots so good for me...