How do you figure out pricing?

[Mike L.]

I’ve made quite a few bows now, and although I haven’t advertised or tried to sell any of them yet, I’ve had a lot of people ask about it.  I made one for an old high school buddy and sold it to him at cost, and I sold one of my first ones for a couple hundred bucks, a loss, cause a work buddy wanted to buy it for his son.  But I think I will eventually want to turn a profit, and I’m wondering how do you guys figure out how much to charge so that it’s fair but you get something for your time and effort?

[Flem]

Forget time and effort, it's what the market will bear. You will not likely get an amount which would correspond to hours put into it, unless of course you are REALLY FAST and efficient. If you have a following or name recognition, you make more. If you are doing the same thing everybody else is and nobody knows you, then you better lowball.
Check to see what other bowyers who are making the same style are getting for their bows and go from there.

[Mike L.]

I hear ya.  I’m not doing anything unique, I don’t think, but I’ve got a guy at work that wants one, and I came up with a price list of $355.  He wants to know what it will cost for me to make it.  I don’t really care about generating a source of income  from it, necessarily, and when people ask how long one takes, I honestly couldn’t say, cause I’m not paying attention to time in the shop, all I know is there’s never enough of it and I need it to stay sane. 

[mmattockx]

Forget time and effort, it's what the market will bear.

 

Here's a man who understands how markets work.


Mark

[kennym]

It’s not really his biz what it costs you to make it. You have to figure time, blades, sandpaper, finish and a lot of other stuff so I’d tell him it costs $355 if that’s what you priced it to him for .

Which is cheap for a custom , check some base model prices and go from there . You won’t be able to price like Widow for example for awhile but don’t sell yourself short either .

[wood carver 2]

I have the same problem with my wood carvings. I agree with what Kenny said. Your cost is nobody’s business but yours. When someone buys a bow from you they’re paying for the materials, your overhead and your experience. I find that most people seem to think that just because you built it at home and not in some factory, it should cost practically nothing. These days I give the person my price. If they complain, I tell them to make it themselves. I’ve got no patience for crap and I don’t rely on my woodworking to earn a living, I do it for my own pleasure and to make things for my friends and family.
Dave.

[OldRawhide42]

I told the last guy $ 20000 . And I would only be getting about $ 1 per hour for my time.

[KenH]

None of his business what it costs to make.  But since he asks, tell him materials is $150 and $20 x minimum 10 hours in the shop, plus lights and other 'overhead' is another $50 comes to $400 "but I'll let you have it for $360.

Overhead includes quart cans of EA-40, lots of sandpaper and belts, saw blades, and "keepin' Momma happy"!

[Flem]

Jeez, you guys are harsh Yeah I know, thats rich coming from me.
 His friend at work might be asking because he wants to make sure Mike does not sell himself short. Conversely he could be a cheap S.O.B.  Only Mike knows.

[Roy from Pa]

I sold a few at first very cheap for friends.
Then the word spread and I had 6 guys wanting a bow one fall.
My hobby turned into a job and it wasn't fun anymore.

I didn't have time to make myself a bow for 3 years.
That's when I stopped selling bows.

The choice is yours on what to charge.

But charge enough to cover your materials and time and some profits.

And then you have liability insurance to worry about if one of your bows break and someone gets hurt!

[Eric Krewson]

When I sold my first selfbow I priced it at $150, this was 20 years ago, I kept that price for 5 or 6 years but like Roy I had too many requests for bows.

I changed my price to $300, if they wanted snake skins I charged the actual price of the skin and $50 to put them on.

The is a lot more work in a selfbow than a glass bow, I cut the tree and started from there. In spite of all the work I never changed my price structure even though I could have as my bows became more desirable. At my peak I was making 15 bows a year and turning down 12 people a month who wanted my bows.

All the logging, drawknifing and inhaling osage dust takes a toll on your body over time so I finally decided to donate a bow or two a year to charity and let it go at that. I might make one or two bows a year now.

Having seen a bunch of guys selling bows that were of dubious quality I would access the overall fit, finish and performance of your bows honestly and set the price accordingly. Your stated price sounds about right to me for a beginning bowyer.

[Flem]

"The is a lot more work in a selfbow than a glass bow"

Thats a broad and situationally inaccurate statement. Possibly more skill, but not a "lot more work"
Some glass bowyers actually harvest their own products, make their own laminates, spend many hours milling wood, additional hours shaping wood and glass and finally many hours prepping for finish, finishing and rubbing out.
Having made numerous self bows and glass bows, I can state from my own perspective, a glass bow is more work, but easier to get a salable product from than a self bow.

[Roy from Pa]

Ah bullcrap Flemmy Boy:)

[Eric Krewson]

I agree Roy, I have never heard such nonsense

Here you go Flem, done this lately for a glass bow? The tractor is a new convenience, the logs shown are the only ones I ever hauled out with it, everything else came out of the woods end over end or on my shoulders. The osage trees I could drive up to were few and far between.

I have gathered around 300 staves and made 158 bows out of them so far, am done with osage harvesting, I have 2 lifetimes worth stockpiled.

[Eric Krewson]

And then you have to remove the bark, sapwood and chase a rig on every stave, I have spent up to 8 hours chasing a problematical ring on a rock hard piece of osage.

Then there is curing, layout, heat straightening and untwisting( I always have to heat straighten) that may take a day or more, often a lot more for all the sessions.

And finally you get to tiller, this usually takes me a week of shooting, tweaking, shooting and more tweaking before I feel the bow is shot in and ready to have the finish applied, this takes a few more days to apply all the coats and let them dry.

I don't just make a bow, I make one someone can win big tournaments with, this process is labor intensive.

[Flem]

"Here you go Flem, done this lately for a glass bow?"

How about all the time. No tractor. Humped out of the forest on a hiking trail.

Eric, have you ever made a glass bow?

[Eric Krewson]

Nope, but one of my best friends is a very accomplished glass bowyer, we have talked about the difference in labor expenditure, he agrees he is taking the easy way out, he cuts his own lams as well from osage stock he buys.

I work exclusively with osage, I cut hickory for my students to learn on.

Ever cut any osage?

Do you turn that yew into lams?

[Flem]

I only turn Yew into lams if its no good for self bows. And I disagree with you and you accomplished friend. And I'm willing to leave it at that.

[Eric Krewson]

Like I said osage is a different animal, if you cut it you would change your perspective on the work expenditure.

Back years ago I went osage cutting and gathering crazy, this was my back yard at the time and when I learned not to cut more osage than you could handle in a reasonable length of time. i worked for a month pealing this stuff with a draw knife and only got through half of it, my hands looked like swollen sausages from all the drawknifing. What I didn't get to ( I was working full time at the power plant) sat in the sun twisted like pretzels and ruined. Only part of the osage in my back yard is showing in the picture.


I took this gag picture titled "you swing the sledge splitting osage until you pass out, when you come to, resume the splitting".

Back then I split every log with a sledge and wedges, it wasn't unusual to wale away on a log for over an hour making that first split, subsequent splits went better, a log that split easily and cleanly was a rarity. later I wised up and made that first split with a chainsaw.

[Roy from Pa]

Yup Eric, a pile of Osage would put a hurting on an old Montana boy:)

Yew wood is light as a feather to carry out:)