Traditional-Only Seasons or Hunts?

[Roy from Pa]

Kevin that pretty much echos my thoughts also.

Well stated bud..

 

[JamesD]

Kevin, your points are well taken. Dustin, you are correct about the traditional only situation with McAlester. The McAlester hunts also back up Kevin's point of traditional only areas and or species. I have most likely read the same information that is being referenced concerning McAlester (Traditional Bowhunter Magazine, Oct./Nov. 1999). If I remember correctly, the traditional only requirement grew out of a desire to preserve the older buck age class that has been established at McAlester.  McAlester is a special situation in a state that has so many deer as a whole, that that deer herd grew by 20% in total numbers this year, even after a record harvest in 2020. Growing up in, and still hunting Oklahoma every fall, I cannot see where a traditional archery season would fit in without taking away from other archery hunters. Oklahoma already has an archery season that runs from 10/01 - 01/15 each year, as well as a limit of six deer. Everyone's points about hunters showing up barely able to operate their gear is spot on. Traditional archery gear takes considerable effort to learn and become proficient with. I remember when compounds took more effort as well. In the eighties when I started hunting, I saw several guys with compound setups just as bad as what others on this thread have described concerning traditional archery setups. Quivers with a different spine and length on each arrow, as well as no more than two of them having the same broadhead and broadhead weight on them. Don't even ask if they were actually sharp. Don't get me started on how these guys were chain smoking cigarettes all the while they were on stand. They were gun hunters who had a nine day season and could not resist the seventy-seven days of archery season we had then in Oklahoma, and an additional two deer limit. Today's compound bows, even the entry level models can be mastered much easier, and so can crossbows which are legal during archery season in a lot of states. I would expect to see the wounding rate lower than what it probably was with the older equipment. As Kevin has stated, it gets more people in the woods, which is good for all of us. Please don't go down the rabbit hole of crossbows. I don't like them. In the case of Oklahoma, where the deer herd is expanding by 20%, even with a 25% percent harvest of the herd every year, I don't see our archery seasons being shortened.

[Bowwild]

As a "bowhunter/biologist" (to the chagrin of some of my early supervisors) I can share a few common thoughts, at least for the eastern half of the U.S. among wildlife agency folks:
1. Bowhunters were respected for their choice to limit their success with traditional equipment. I remember early 70's success rates in Indiana were 3%.  That super-hunter mystique wore off after a few years of compounds. Not a big mgmt. deal, we just weren't considered as "challenged" as we once were. I've hunted with and still hunt with both types.
2. Bowhunters' strongest point of favor with many managers, was the great number of recreation days that could be provided (long seasons) without negatively impacting opportunity for others or the resource.
3. Bowhunters were considered the go-to group when heavily populated (urban) harvest was needed.

Later in my career I had to remind Wildlife Commissioners, when one or two might not favor bowhunters because they seemed to want more, at the expense of other sportsmen, that the typical bowhunter is often the agency's most avid of sportsman, buying licenses and partaking of so many fishing and hunting opportunities.  That reminder would cause these fellows to pause just a moment or two. Most bowhunters also hunt with firearms and most also fish.

While I don't think we have a lot to fear at this time, the greatest threat to hunters (besides habitat loss of course) are regulations imposed by non-hunter wildlife managers.  Some of the dumbest laws on the books were authored by non-partipants.  Some ill-informed regulations were imposed by a regulator who was influenced by a self-described "expert" friend, acquaintance, or celebrity.

[Mark R]

Very interesting comments, I think the environment, area, you live or hunt in makes a big difference in management regulations, I'm in northern Il. and am fine with the seasons for both Il. and Wi.. I must say I'm more concerned with the loss of habitat to hunt in, mainly highly pressured public lands that do not have an abundance of game to pursue, especially with trad gear, they usually get pushed out within the first week or two, in some places the designated parking area's are full by 6am, I'm talking archery only. In my area the overly dense Deer population seems to be  in areas where there is no hunting aloud to the general public and is managed on the tax payers dime by contracting so called professionals and or government employees to cull the herds and there not doing it with a bow and arrow, usually closing the area off and culling the herd at night, baiting, and the use of an  efficient weapon, it has to be done to preserve the areas, that's just my scenario I'm sure there many others. I'll half to travel at least 2 hours to get to better public land and even that can be marginal.  Just to say wildlife management varies and is ongoing area to area. There's plenty of archery hunters in Northern Il. and Wi. I think urban sprawl is changing the management process quit a bit around here and many other places. JMHO.

[Roy from Pa]

My thoughts are, we trad guys are the minority of all hunters and bow hunters.

Yet some trad folks think we should have our own special season?

What if the compound guys wanted their own special season and the crossbow guys wanted their own special season and the gun hunters wanted their own special season?

If deer seasons were put up for a vote amongst all the hunters, we trad guys lose.

I'm a hunter first and it's my choice as to what weapon I choose to hunt with, same as it is other hunters choice as to their choice of weapon.

Just because we choose stick bows to hunt with doesn't mean we are special in other hunters minds.

It's a dog eat dog world out there and sometimes it is better to compromise with others.

Bow hunters can hunt all the seasons with their bows and that gives us a heck of a lot of more days in the woods than someone who only gun hunts.

[Osage1997]

Ohio is rough. Not only do we not have a purely traditional season, but anyone can also even use a crossbow for the entire sept-feb archery season. Not a huge fan of it. Love the idea though. Good luck with that pursuit.

[arrow30]

im pretty happy with what we have nowadays, compared to what the oldtimers had when they started it all for us. nowadays i can kill a deer and kill another the next day or next month or two or three.

the archery season history in mo.

https://mdc.mo.gov/magazines/conservationist/1996-10/50-years-archery-deer-hunting

[Kevin Dill]

I think the bottom line for any traditional-only season or area is this: It has to solve an existing problem for wildlife managers, and it needs to be the best solution in their views. It also would need to do so without appearing to favor the aesthetic desires of traditional bowhunters. That's a very tall hurdle to clear, and probably unlikely given the various biases which affect decision making at that level. Bowwild knows this all too well I'm certain.

I believe statewide exclusive traditional archery seasons are probably a moot point for all intents and purposes.

[chefrvitale]

I don't know of any but I feel this would result in guys that have no business hunting with a trad bow trying to extend their season. I'd like to see crossbows only be permitted if individuals are handicapped or during firearm season.
The crossbows on the market are insane, I don't know how shooting one could be considered archery.

[beendare]

When the Colorado Bowhunters tried to argue for their own season separate from Muzzeloaders…the G&F said, “ OK, then you will have a much shorter season because the muzzie guys will still have that week” CBH dropped their request.

A few trad only areas would be nice….

.

[Trenton G.]

As mentioned by a lot of guys before, a traditional only season would probably lead to more issues than it would solve. Now every unique weapon group would want their own season, which could potentially cut back on what we currently have. Right now in Michigan I can bowhunt from October 1 thru January 1, a solid three months. Sure I have to share that with the compound and crossbow guys, but I'd much rather have those three months to hunt vs have say three weeks where it's just the trad guys.
Currently the U.P. doesn't allow crossbows during the late archery season. I wouldn't mind seeing that regulation extended down to the lower peninsula.

[SlowBowKing]

I agree with lots of the sentiments here. To ethically hunt with traditional equipment is a commitment. Many are not willing to put forth the necessary time and effort, and I would hate to incentivize those unwilling to adequately prepare to pick it up for the benefit of a few extra days of hunting. Our quarry deserves better.

[thumper-tx]

I believe a trad only season would be a no go here in Texas. To create a special season, you have to take season away from someone else and that is not likely a popular idea for such a statistically small group.  Also, in most of Texas, biologist want more deer killed, not less. 

[gregg dudley]

Good conversation here on both sides of the coin.  Kevin's reminder that hunting seasons and regulations are supposed to meet a management objective is the thing that should guide all decision making.  Promoting a season that benefits an extremely small group of stakeholders without a clearly articulated management objective serves only a recreational purpose and is not likely to be well received or sustainable in the long run. 

While there are exceptions, general trends still indicate stable or growing deer herds combined with declining hunter numbers. Game managers are not generally looking for ways to limit hunter participation or deer harvest.  There are exceptions and if you can find those exceptions, you might find a match for a trad only or primitive season on a parcel of property that allows an added hunting opportunity.  I think that is the real key.  You have to find something extra, not something that will take away or reduce existing opportunities for other sportsmen. 

While hunters in some states are seeing a loss of public land opportunities, others see the acquisition of new properties on an annual basis.  In states where the opportunities are declining, it would not make sense to impose further restrictions on hunters.  However, in a state that is acquiring public land, an opportunity might arise to create a special use hunt.

[Gen273]

We don't have a traditional only season in KY. I am not sure how beneficial it would be in reality. However, I haven't thought about very much either.

[Sam McMichael]

Initially, I thought I would favor a separate season. However, after reading this thread multiple times, I have changed my mind.

[Al Dente]

What we have always spoken about here in NYS is a natural progression of implements.  Hand drawn bows, then firearms/crossbows.  Any superior implement, including flintlocks and modern muzzleloaders, crossbows, pneumatic powered firearms, and other firearms all offer distinct advantages, including, but not limited to, the ability to be pre-loaded and pre-cocked prior to game coming in range.  Add in telescopic sighting devices, and the entire picture changes.

NYB was asked what will it take to bring crossbows to the table for discussion.  We said first, remove the scopes, the response was: "Not going to happen."  So that was the end of the discussion. 

Our wonderfully inept DEC this year even authorized a mid-September, antlerless, firearms hunt, which opened just days before the Northern Zone Archery Opener, and 2 weeks before the Southern Zone Archery Opener.  When talking to so-called "biologists", and the suits that control them, they are only looking at selling as many licenses as possible, and NOT, sound game management.

[Red Beastmaster]

Pennsylvania and Maryland have primitive seasons - FYI

PA has a late archery and flintlock deer season. It starts the day after Christmas and is three weeks long. Any archery equipment is allowed. No inlines, muzzleloaders must be flintlocks.

[Steve D]

 I would like to see an area set aside on a trial basis for 3-5years and then take it from there. Especially so in hard hunted public areas such as in Wisc
and Michigan.

[DNewer]

A proposed trad only Dall Sheep season in Alaska right now. Im curious if some of the detracted here on trad gang will support it or try to get it shut down.  Based on the replies here sounds like  the majority would not be in favor. Which to me is extremely alarming. My opinion.