Traditional-Only Seasons or Hunts?

[Mark R]

I'm not sure anyone would be terribly against it but you must realize the can of worms that could be opened as far as hunters that use other weapons that might not like it or want more special seasons for themselves.

[Roy from Pa]

Exactly....

[Joshua Polland]

As a Game Warden I hear so often from hunters and anglers that there are too many laws. I always tell them that most of the time, new laws were submitted by a representative on behalf of some public group. A law like this would beg to be broken. People would still use compounds and crossbows and claim the kill as Traditional. It would also cause more of a rift between Compound and Traditional Archers in a time where we should be unified.

[LC]

I agree there are too many laws. But I don't agree laws cause more people to break them. People who break laws are going to break laws regardless. They just use any excuse they can. With all that said I'm still against a separate season. Now if there are certain isolated areas for what ever reason the harvest needs to be slowed by all means restrict the kill by having a separate season that historically kills fewer animals. 

[Roy from Pa]

It would also cause more of a rift between Compound and Traditional Archers in a time where we should be unified.

Exactly....

[Kevin Dill]

One rationale (often given) to justify a trad season is the reduced participation/lower success rate argument. There's a mental image of fewer hunters afield and less intense competition. The reality is sometimes quite different after a few years.

No spinning rod angler ever said “Let's make this river fly-fishing-only”. It was fly rod folks who pushed for it. There were fewer of them, and logic was that making a stream or season 'fly fishing only' would limit participation and reduce competition. This is an example of how well it worked:



I've seen crowds of fly anglers in North Carolina, Alaska, Wyoming, West Virginia and more. People are not deterred by a lack of equipment or experience. Today you can call yourself a fly fisherman or a traditional bowhunter just as fast as you can order the gear online. We all know there's more to it than that, but the point is you'll qualify to participate, whether you have any skills or not. We all know that people often don't wait to acquire and hone their skills before heading afield. They learn through trial, error, failure and maybe success....often at the expense of their quarry.

[Doug S]

  Interesting views here.
      The one season that stands out and is interesting to me is that P.A Flintlock season. Similar thought to a trad season.  I remember freezing all day just to have my gun not fire 30yrs ago.   I don't think that flint only has caused a bunch of issues or division in the hunting world. We trad are a huge minority but also seem a very divided opinionated group with lots of infighting compared to the muzzle lobby. I wouldn't care if some newbies bought a new sage recurve and went to hunt in a trad only area or season. That's how some people will become trad bowhunters, Some will stick. Some wont. Like me and flintlock. I sold that gun that night.
The flintlock season worked and it hasn't blown up the hunting world.
You get what you negotiate for.  Most of those fly fishermen will only try it once and never catch a fish. But some will become lifelong fly guys. And the set a side streams they have worked for give them great fishing. Good job by them.
 I know the bucks would get older in a trad only area just like those trout.

[Doug S]

  People don't wait to hone or acquire hunting skills before heading a field goes for every single season we already have. It starts somewhere. There is a learning time. I am for proficiency shooting test like I have had to do to hunt some ranches and I hear other countries have. Although it is not perfect.

[howl]

Sounds like the issue is getting .gov to mandate the opportunity instead of providing it yourself. I'm against special privileges for squeaky wheels in public areas. Any way you angle it, there are always unintended consequences.

You should be able to make private areas as trad only as you like if you're footing the bill for it.

[Doug S]

  Found a recurve, longbow and old style muzzleloader only hunt in Tennessee on the Waterfowl refuge. First weekend in Oct. So there is one out there. No compounds.

[DNewer]

We can wax poetic about limited weapons seasons all we want. Bottom line is there is a very distinct separation between a recurve and longbow and everything else in Archery seasons in the US. I would make the argument that the line is far more distinct than the already separated rifle and black powder rifle season.
I would also make an argument that with longbows and recurves the technology is not radically changing as it applies to those bows and hunting. Especially compared to muzzle loader technology improvements and very much so against compound bows and crossbows.

My simple question is if black powder rifles can maintain a seperste season in 2022 why couldn’t you at least make the arguments for bow seasons ans the two very distinct weapons categories? 

Same argument same dead horse I’ve been beating on this thread. 

[Mark R]

Not sure your reasoning, but I think if every different weapon had there own season, who gets preferential treatment as far as Rut season, Area, and so on, and the break up would probly shorten everyone's season and make it more tedious to navigate the Reg's. Can you elaborate your plan better. As far as Muzzle Loader season it's a tight line as it is as far as the efficiencies of the weapons that are now available and so on. Illinois has Muzzle Loader only season but basic gun season is regulated to shotgun only no rifle season in Il. of course the slug guns are pretty good these days and you can get a Muzzle Loader that can shoot just as good as most Rifle's of course one shot and then the process of reloading but one shot is usually all you get regardless before the animal spooks and runs away. I think We need to keep the Reg's at a happy medium as much as possible and try not to unnecessarily overcomplicate things which seems to be the norm these days.

[WV Mario]

West Virginia has a Heritage Season in January. It is Recurve,longbow, or traditional muzzleloader. You can harvest one deer, black bear, and turkey.

[Skipmaster1]

I would rather just fight to keep archery seasons vertical bows only.

[Doug S]

  https://www.register-herald.com/sports/mountaineer-heritage-season-ready-for-another-year/article_ba3ddede-bca1-5c79-95fe-bacfe8c4f28c.html

  Here is the West Virginia story.

[Red Beastmaster]

My buddies and I have our own trad only hunts. We have squirrel camp, deer camp, and hog camp. We go to several trad only shoots and events throughout the year.

It's a lifestyle for us.

[archeryprof]

The telling thing here is that we are having a discussion about having a archery season separate from the archery season.Sadly technology has changed this sport forever.The easier, the quicker the better.Rest assured that when bowhunting seasons were first allowed by the fish and game depts. todays equipment was not remotely what they had in mind.Growing up in Texas,I began bow hunting in the late 60's.Then our wildlife dept. viewed the bow as a poachers weapon. We were required to write our name and address permanently on every arrow carried afield.That requirement lasted at least into the 1980's.My how things have changed!Now scoped crossbows are legal here for the archery season that in the hands of a 6 year old can accurately shoot an animal at 80 + yards.A separate season is not the answer,Red Beastmaster has the right idea-birds of a feather.The primary reason I'm on Trad Gang.

[PrestonTaylor]

Hey Fellas,
It may seem like the idea of a Traditional Archery season or tag is not relevant to you if you live somewhere with an abundant overpopulation of game and long hunting seasons. However, here in the West very few cervid populations are above carrying capacity. Specifically speaking of mule deer, the majority of them have been on the decline across their range. Most of the mule deer decline is likely due to habitat loss from development and resource extraction activities. In addition to loss of habitat, we are seeing a higher kill rate during the archery season than before. Correlation is not causation, but it seems clear to me that the increase in technology for modern archery gear plays a role is peoples' ability to kill animals from further distances (rangefinders, sights, trigger releases, and very efficient bows); added onto the new tackle technology are other devices like GPS, phone apps, satellite imaging, spotting scopes and optics, quads, lightweight clothes and gear, etc. that have made it easier for people to go places they might not have before. This is not just speculation. Check the internet and see how far people shoot arrows at mule deer and elk now awadays. I ran into a hunter this season who shot (and thankfully missed) a buck from 150 yards, and saw a picture of another who shot his first from 126 yards and a second from 147 yards, killing the buck.

Now look at 2 state game agencies who have or are about to address their concern with a higher success rate in what was supposed to be a "primitive weapons" season with little to no impact on the game populations: Oregon has now made ALL archery mule deer units draw tags. They used to be OTC, and you used to be able to hunt any unit with one tag, now you have to pick your unit.

Arizona is about to decide on one of three options for what was an OTC archery deer tag good for the majority of the state's units: 1) Make the tag a draw hunt; 2) make each unit a quota hunt that will close when archery harvest has reached 20% of rifle harvest; or 3) leave it the same as it is an OTC tag (unlikely this will happen since the purpose of addressing this issue is one of over harvest).

We could easily reduce harvest AND maintain hunting opportunities by putting the "primitive" back into the primitive weapons seasons. A Traditional Archery tag or season or unit would be ideal. But we could also accomplish this by prohibiting range finders, taking sights off bows, and prohibiting releases.

Sure, a Trad tag, season, or unit would mean some folks just buy a cheap recurve and "become" a trad hunter overnight. But the reality is unless you put the time in for years, you're going to be very good, which means you won't kill many animals.

And it's not just this way for mule deer. Idaho has made it harder for non-residents to get an elk tag. Colorado moved a bunch of their OTC archery elk tags to draw hunts last year. Oregon is doing the same with some archery elk units.

This doesn't have to be a divisive issue amongst us hunters. Rather it should be promoted and seen as a means to create and keep hunting opportunities where the alternative is for them to be reduced.
Preston

[A tag]

Idaho is still, first come first serve on out of state deer and elk tags. The state still has a set number of tags available for non-residents that you can buy on line in December. Last year those tags did sell out in better regions by June.
 
As far as the long range shooting goes it could happen but for that kind of range a compound will have to have two peeps or the sight gets so low there will be contact with the fletching or the arrow itself. Most target archers get about 100 yards out of there sight before contact. The average compound shooter that I know will not shoot past about 50 yards do to lack of accuracy with a hunting set up. The compound archers I know that will shoot out to 60 70 yards are well above average shooters and most say shooting that far is not ethical on live animals because of the amount of time it takes for Arrow to get to the animal. I’m not saying a guy can’t shoot a bow that far. anybody can launch a arrow at one, even a trad guy. There are slob hunter everywhere.  I just don’t want guys back east thinking compound guys out here are setting up to take 100 plus’s yard shots. That’s just what YouTube guys do to try to become famous.

As far as a traditional only season I’ve already mentioned it’s been tried in Idaho. I have never felt at a disadvantage shooting longbow. I feel like my success rate is the same as compound shooter in my area if not better in most cases. At least in my area I see no need for separation.

[archeryprof]

The real game changer (literally) on deer harvest numbers is the crossbow.When added as legal equipment for the archery season they will dramatically affect harvest numbers and the numbers of hunters in the field.I A crossbow is nothing more than a scoped gun that shoots an arrow with extreme accuracy, easily to 100 + yds. No knowledge of archery required.I have friends who hunt western Kansas each year with crossbows and routinely kill big mule deer at ridiculously long ranges.The issue is not with the technology but only that crossbows have no place in archery seasons.If you are lucky enough to live in a state that still does not allow crossbows in the archery seasons I might suggest that your trad groups and organizations concentrate your efforts on keeping them out aside from creating a separate trad season. And get ready- crossbow manufacturers have a powerful lobby and money to spend to sell their idea to wildlife depts.