Smithsonian article

[Flem]

Am I the only nerd that gets the Smithsonian? I picked up my mail yesterday and in the new issue is an interesting article about flight shooters. And guess who is featured?     Alan Case of Beaverton!

Have not read the article yet, I will get to it after my post coffee reading session.

[Pat B]

Let us know what it says.   

[Flem]

You can read it online.

[Shredd]

   Awesome...   

[Flem]

Ok, I am completely ignorant on flight shooting. So I got some questions, if anybody knows or Alan is around.

Are those projectiles arrows or bolts? I have always thought an arrow needed to span the fully drawn bow, from string to brace.
How do they draw a bow that pulls over 300#s?? Even with all four limbs, thats a tremendous amount of strain.
Do they get to use an angle gauge on the shooting device?
Does the projectile ride in a track?
I'm also really curious about the ASL the other guy is shooting. The limbs are vibrating like crazy in that picture.

[mmattockx]

Are those projectiles arrows or bolts? I have always thought an arrow needed to span the fully drawn bow, from string to brace.
How do they draw a bow that pulls over 300#s?? Even with all four limbs, thats a tremendous amount of strain.
Do they get to use an angle gauge on the shooting device?
Does the projectile ride in a track?
I'm also really curious about the ASL the other guy is shooting. The limbs are vibrating like crazy in that picture.

Alan will probably check in eventually, but I know some of these.

1) How do you define the difference between arrow and bolt? I would call these arrows as they have a nock and attach to the string as usual. They are very short, though, more like big darts than a traditional arrow. They use an overdraw shelf to allow them to draw more than the arrow length. I don't think the arrow rides in a groove but I am not familiar with the details of Alan's foot bow.

2) Drawing the bow is a similar motion to doing a deadlift, but while laying on your back. The draw is relatively short, so you aren't pulling through a huge range of motion but it is a significant grunt no matter how you look at it. I expect Alan does strength training with weights to be able to handle the draw weight.

3) I'm not sure on the angle gauge. I think they have a spotter watching them and giving them instructions on where to aim left/right, elevation, etc.


Mark

[Flem]

Now I'm curious why that record has stood for 50yrs!!
Cant imagine the technology and materials have not changed enough in that span of time to compensate for whatever magic Harry Drake performed to achieve the record.

[Buemaker]

2028 yards wow. You need a golf cart to retrieve arrows.

[Shredd]

  That's 1.15 miles..!!!   

[Flem]

I think I know why Alan's attempt failed. He was probably hanging out partying with the eclectic soakers at the awesome hot springs that are near Austin. He was as crusty as the desert hardpan

[KenH]

GThere are a number of categories of Flight Shooting, from Traditional (wood-horn-sinew) to the Open-class like these foot-bows, and draw-weight classes within each category.  I know several folks who build and compete in the Traditional category in Europe as well as the States.  Talk about dedication -- both to building and shooting!!!

[Mad Max]

Flem

Page 46 What did you do today 2021

You were not paying attention 

[Flem]

None of my questions were answered on pg 46?
 I have seen other videos, where you can see more clearly what the bow looks like and how it is drawn and the release mechanism.

[Mad Max]

I was just saying I posted that back then

[avcase]

I think I know why Alan's attempt failed. He was probably hanging out partying with the eclectic soakers at the awesome hot springs that are near Austin. He was as crusty as the desert hardpan

Flem,
I keep hearing about the hot springs, and that would of been a noble reason for everything going down the drain.  Unfortunately, I have yet to find them!

I don’t know where to begin with this one.

Alan

[Flem]

There is an OK springs in the Smith Cr. valley where you were. The best ones are a little east of Austin on 50, over the top and take the first Hwy to the south. Pretty easy to find and worth the short trip if you like to soak.
I love that stark, beautiful landscape that is Nevada.

Did you make the bow that your friend was shooting in the article?

[avcase]

There is an OK springs in the Smith Cr. valley where you were. The best ones are a little east of Austin on 50, over the top and take the first Hwy to the south. Pretty easy to find and worth the short trip if you like to soak.
I love that stark, beautiful landscape that is Nevada.

Did you make the bow that your friend was shooting in the article?

Thanks Flem!  I will set aside an extra day or two in my next trip to the area for exploration. I also have a kite-buggy rig and would love to spend some time land sailing the lake bed. I suppose if the footbow doesn’t kill me, then then kite-buggy probably will!

I did make one of the bows pictured with Jim Martin. It is the deflex-reflex longbow with the chunky/blocky riser.  Jim wanted the riser like this specifically for function and mass as opposed to aesthetics. The bow is 115# drawn 30” AMO, and Jim used it in the Field Recurve category, which requires standard arrow components, no overdraws, and finger release. He blew away the standing record with a distance of 804 yards, 2 feet, and 10 inches.  This is not bad for a guy who is pushing 70 years of age!  For some reference, the last record Drake bow that held this record was shot by Don Brown at a distance of just under 612 yards, so this is a pretty big deal.  Here is a link to a video of him shooting that bow.

https://youtube.com/shorts/L0k08iwa6o8?feature=share

[avcase]

Ok, I am completely ignorant on flight shooting. So I got some questions, if anybody knows or Alan is around.

Are those projectiles arrows or bolts? I have always thought an arrow needed to span the fully drawn bow, from string to brace.
How do they draw a bow that pulls over 300#s?? Even with all four limbs, thats a tremendous amount of strain.
Do they get to use an angle gauge on the shooting device?
Does the projectile ride in a track?
I'm also really curious about the ASL the other guy is shooting. The limbs are vibrating like crazy in that picture.

The draw weight is comparable some of modern commercially produced high-end crossbows. The big difference is that I can’t use any devices to assist with drawing the bow back.  The draw weight is not the most difficult part however. The hard part is keeping the bow precisely aimed and at the proper angle above horizontal. We are shooting perpendicular to a pre-established shooting line. If the arrow veers left or right of perpendicular, then the distance is penalized, because all the measurements are taken perpendicular to this shooting line. Another issue is that the arrow becomes almost impossible to find if my shot veers offline by even a small amount.

I do not use a crossbow-like track to support the arrow with my bow. The tip of the arrow is supported by a flexible Mylar elevated rest. In contrast, Harry Drake did use a crossbow-like arrow track for his bow.

The ASL bow that Jim Martin is shown shooting is just one of the bows that he uses for warming up, so he shoots pretty heavy arrows out of it. I think around 1000 grains.

Alan

[avcase]

Now I'm curious why that record has stood for 50yrs!!
Cant imagine the technology and materials have not changed enough in that span of time to compensate for whatever magic Harry Drake performed to achieve the record.

There have been many attempts over the years to break this record.  All I can say is that there are so many ways to fail at it.  Shooting yourself in the foot is certainly one of them!  Past efforts were thwarted by flash flooding, soft or excessively rough surface conditions that made it impossible to find the arrows, equipment failures, arrow instability issues caused by atmospheric differences (mostly elevation) between the area I test shoot, and the area the official shoot takes place. In 2020, the issue is that we realized after I shot all my arrows that we chose a shoot direction that had thick grass and brush right where the arrows would of landed and it made it impossible to find them.  It wouldn’t of been an issue if we shot just a few degrees to the left.

Alan

[Flem]

You must have to work on your core strength to be able to hold the bow steady in that awkward position!
Do you use a metal detector or any nano homing devices to find arrows?


I'm guessing you must like Nevada like I do, because you are driving past a lot of desert and some playas in Oregon to get there