Technical question

[Doug S]

  Years ago I hunted with a noisy setup (to the deer at least) Too many deer would jump, duck , load ect.. at the sound of my release. I went to a 72# straight longbow and a very heavy arrow. The next 22 deer died without a jump. I cant really shoot that bow anymore without hurting someone other than the deer. Hunting in Mt Lion country with some spooky deer.

 Question:  60# bow what weight arrow weight will not leave any energy behind (to make noise) and not begin to lose speed unnecessarily (not gain any more quietness)  I'm sure there is a graph or study on this somewhere.
I get the material makes a difference also. Pingy hollow aluminum is out!
Anyone NEVER have deer jump?
Thanks
Doug

[Miner49er]

I don't hunt,but I hate a noisy bow.Longbows are what I've always shot.I shoot the recommended brace height,then move the puffs up or down the string until I achieve quiet.Right now I shoot 342 gn 600 spine arrows out of a 40 lb takedown longbow.Quite as a mouse.

[dnovo]

i would stay in that 600-700 grain arrow range. Best compromise between weight and trajectory. Should be plenty quiet. When I was shooting 60#+ I shot about 630 grain arrows and my bows were all quiet to the point where i got a lot of comments on it.

[Orion]

I like to shoot at least 10 grains per pound of bow weight, and most often shoot 11-12 gpp so I'd recommend an arrow weight of 600 to 720 grains.  Most deer jump the string because they're alert to begin with.  If you only shoot at unalert deer, i.e., those that don't suspect your presence or some other threat, you'll get many fewer deer jumping the string. 

[Bowguy67]

Doug any nerved up deer jump the string. I’ve seen whole quivers emptied at calm ones under 20 yards without the slightest jump

[beendare]

 Anyone that hasnt had a deer jump the string hasn’t hunted much- grin

 My current hunting recurve is pretty quiet; Dryad ILF riser, Uukha limbs at 47#, 553g arrow with a 2 blade but Ive still had a couple deer flinch if its dead still and no environmental noise.

The jumpiest deer Ive hunted Axis on Lanai and Coues in Az have both jumped the stringon me in dead still conditions with my recurve ( and previously with a compound too)

Last year in Az, a little breeze made the difference and I shot an 87” buck quartering away that never flinched.

Bow weight; FWIW, I wouldn’ t get hung up on heavy bows. In the last 2 years Ive shot 12 animals and almost all pass through shots- including a moose…like a hot knife through butter.

Hitting the offside leg is the exception but otherwise just blowing through them all.

.

[GCook]

I've had it go both ways.  Them turn inside out and them never flinch. 
I've seen pigs do the same.  Axis are as bad as squirrels.
As quiet as possible.  But shorter distances give animals less time to react as well. 
I really prefer times with a good breeze.   It really makes a difference.  That said I'll hunt whenever I can hunt.

[Doug S]

  Thanks for the responses. No choice but to hunt wired deer here.
To ask another way...  arrows take the energy of the limbs of the bow. if they being too light for that bow don't use all that energy the energy goes to the air as noise. There is an arrow weight for each bow that uses all the energy without beginning to slow the arrow without gaining more lack of sound.
How do you figure that out? Is there a table or graph? 50# longbow needs a _____ weight arrow to max the energy but not drain the energy without gaining in silence..
Help

[GCook]

  Thanks for the responses. No choice but to hunt wired deer here.
To ask another way...  arrows take the energy of the limbs of the bow. if they being too light for that bow don't use all that energy the energy goes to the air as noise. There is an arrow weight for each bow that uses all the energy without beginning to slow the arrow without gaining more lack of sound.
How do you figure that out? Is there a table or graph? 50# longbow needs a _____ weight arrow to max the energy but not drain the energy without gaining in silence..
Help

No because not every bow is equal in it's stored energy potential.   Even two bows of the same draw weight can perform differently.   
Now there are spine calculator set ups that can help you with that but it focuses on the arrow flying properly versus quiet.
To my knowledge there is no trick, no suppressor, for a bow that works perfect every time.

[Doug S]

  I read some good older articles on this. I think starting at 12 Gr per # will do the trick for the longbows I shoot. And a non hollow arrow. Back to non vent broadheads. Too many days in a tree only to have a deer jump the string!

[Wudstix]

I shoot fairly heavy bows.  My arrows are all 700 grains plus.  Also, I have found through trial and error, plus some reading that silencer positioning of 18.3% of the distance from the nock groove on longbow and the string touch point on recurve works better/best.  Recently have become a fan of para cord sheath material, very light weight and nylon so minimal water retention.  I use four pieces cut 2" there are many colors available.
 

[McDave]

+1 on GCooks response.  Two bows of the same mass and draw weight shooting the same arrow can have significantly different amounts of noise.  Noise comes from 5-6 (maybe more) possible sources on a bow.  You can eliminate some structural sources of noise by shooting a one-piece longbow, but there are other sources of noise that have to be rooted out by the shooter individually.  Of course a good rule of thumb is that noise is reduced as arrow weight increases; it's just not the same for all bows.

[MnFn]

Never had a problem with noise when shooting wood and wood seems just right with longbows.

[Lori]

I have heard this explained many times to others. The first noise one must try to eliminate is the noise of drawing the arrow. Sometimes wood arrows can have a raspy sound even on a padded rest. Our's get buffed and waxed.

[Orion]

Doug.  I gree that starting at 12 gpp will make for a pretty quiet bow. (that's what I recommended in my first post.  Keep in mind though that no bow is 100% efficient.  I.e. there's always energy left in the limbs at the end of the shot.  A highly efficient stick bow would impart about 80% of its energy to the arrow.  Most are somewhere between 60% and 80%.

Of course, bow design and physical weight can also contribute to bow noise.  Recurves with heavy risers tend to absorb limb vibration/noise, but they also have string slap on the recurve portion of the limbs.  True longbows don't have string slap on the limbs, but they are fairly physically light.  String material also has a lot to do with noise.  Some are just noisier than others.  Most feel that dacron is less noisy, or at least lower pitched, than low stretch strings. Same can be said for arrow material.  Aluminum and carbon are generally noisier than wood.  But i think yhou have all of this figured out.

Here's something else to think about.  Maybe there are now more mountain lions and other predators keeping the critters in your area on high alert.  And/or maybe you're not be as stealthy as you once were.  If you put the animals on alert before the shot, they're likely going to jump the string regardless of how quiet youir bow is. My experience has been that very few of the calm animals I've shot have jumped the string, while most of the alert animals I shot at jumped the string. Good luck in your quest. 

[Todd Cook]

11-12 gpp will help a lot. Two other things also that some may not think about- I shoot the smallest feathers that will stabilize the broadhead. Big feathers can really whistle on a still day. Also, and I'm in the tiny minority here, I hunt with Dacron strings of B55. MUCH quieter for me.

[LookMomNoSights]

I don't think there's any need to get super technical with this ....... and aside from the design of the bow,  it's definitely all about your arrow weight.  Some bows are by design,  quieter than others.  I'll go out on a limb here and say ALL bows that are exceptionally quiet,  are shooting a "heavy" arrow.  What is heavy?  Personally, I wouldn't think of shooting less than 10 gpp but would probably settle in the area of 11 - 12 gpp, before you start burning the candle on the cast end of it.  Get the right spine to work up an arrow 660 grn or so.  Bet you'll be happy.
This is just my opinion .......... and you know what they say about those

[Doug S]

  Orion
Your killing me!  Your saying the bows I make for myself aren't efficient and then that my hunting skills suck now!    Might have something there
I was looking for a formula because i'm lazy....  Have to many bows... and want a fast answer!   
I usually hunt with a heavy riser 3 pc longbow and a heavy arrow but sometimes I forget what I have already learned and try new stuff...  My first bow I made was a straight limbed 3 pc longbow. Shot woodies and had great fortune. That was 89 bows ago.  Gonna build another one of those. Have hunted deer in 15 states and these are the most reactive to sound I have seen. Very suspicious of everything.  So if I quite farting in the stand and quiet my bow I'm hoping to solve this.

Thanks all

[Judd]

I agree that the heavier arrows reduce the "noise" a deer hears buttttttt.
I did some very unscientific testing, whereby i stood very close to the target, 5yds away, behind a barrier off to the side and listened to the arrows as they came to the target.
You would be very surprised the amount of "noise" an arrow makes !!!
Ultimately the less feathers or vanes you have, (length, height, or the number of) the less "noise" the deer will hear.
I used to shoot 5" high shield, I am down to 3" low shield and still hear a little bit of "noise" but considerably less.
Make very sure your arrows are bear shaft tuned well, so you need minimal feathers.
After watching slow motion videos of the arrow traveling to the deer, it seemed to me they seemed to be reacting to the arrow.
YMMV.

[Doug S]

 
 Judd
Your right . I forgot to mention I have cut my feathers down . They look like Apache feathers now. Very low profile. I did those unscientific tests also.