Questions about my next (heavish) ASL

[madmaxthc]

Hey, Tradgangers,

Long time no seen 

After about two years break from trad hunting, I am trying to get back into it. I am training with my 65# Northern Mist Baraga, and feeling pretty good about strength and form, I have now started working on regaining accuracy.

When I first started shooting a 65 pounder, I quickly realized that it was for me more of a technical challenge  than a physical one. Make sure you use your higher back, or that bow will  teach you the hard way...      but do it right, and it'll become a pleasure to shoot.   

I am now hooked to both ASLs and heavier bows. I am well aware that I do not "need" a heavier weight to hunt, but I would like soon to increase my draw weight.   So, here are my two questions, for people who shoot heavier bows:

1) What draw weight would you suggest I go for next? Would 80# be too much of a leap?

2) I love my 55# Maddog string follower and my 65# Baraga; would you have any suggestion for the next bow? Of course, it would still be used for hunting. Ideally with six months or less waiting time.  Still haven't decided if I want a two piece or a one piece bow.

Thanks for your time, 
Max

[Orion]

I think 15# is too big a jump (at least for most people).  I'd recommend going up about 5# at a time, when you're at a fairly heavy weight to begin with.  That will require you buying multiple bows, of course.  But at the weights you're considering, there are lots of ASLs available at very good prices because few people shoot that weight anymore.  God luck. 

[mnbwhtr]

I agree, 15# is a big jump but the only way to know is to try to find one and try it. Make sure you can full draw it and shoot one or two at a time and gradually shoot more and more. Good luck!

[streamguy]

When I've worked back into my heavy bows from an injury or long layoff, I've found that increments of more than 8 - 10 lb lead to bad habits for me, even if strength wasnt an issue.
As was said, if you look for heavier bows, you can often find them reasonably priced since not many of us shoot heavy.

[A Lex]

I guess everybody is different, so take from this what you can get out of it.

I shoot a 75lb Blackwidow longbow and have done so for years. Almost daily, I shoot 40-50 arrows with it, and usually shoot it very easily, and usually shoot it better than just average.

But,,,, about three-ish years ago a mate bought an 80lb Blackwidow recurve (and what a looker it was too) and gave me a go with it.

I thought this should be easy, I'll draw that, it's only another 5lbs, that's nothing.

Boy was I wrong, I simply could not get it back to full draw (I draw just a fuzz under 28") He could shoot it though, and he shot it well.

So, I think that day I found my limit of what draw weight I can shoot accurately and consistantly with, 75lb, NOT 80lb, even though it's only a mere 5lb heavier.

What I'm trying to offer here (I think  ) is once you start getting up in draw weight (and 65lb is starting to get up there) maybe go for small increments, like 5lb if possible, and MASTER that weight before going up again.

But I'm guessing, like me, you will more than likely find a maximum weight you can master and shoot well with.

Good luck and have fun 

Best
Lex

[Wudstix]

Good advice given so far.  Personally, I shoot 65-70# regularly.  That is my limit, with the time available for me to shoot and train for archery.  It is incredible what an extra couple pounds can do to limit your effectiveness with a bow.  Find your "wall" and stick to it.

     

[madmaxthc]

Thank you everyone for your kind advice.

I will look for a second hand bow to increase my draw weight first, and take it from there.

Wish you a happy new year, everybody 

[Sam McMichael]

I made the step from 58# to 78# when I decided to go heavy. That's a big jump, but it can be done. I was successful, but I do not recommend it. As you stated, you have been told you don't need that much pull but still want it. Go for it,
 but go slow and be cautious. Down the road I developed shoulder issues requiring surgery, so I know what can happen. I dropped back to 65# for a number of years and am now comfortable at 53#. Shoot only those numbers of arrows that you can control. Don't flatter yourself and think you can shoot dozens of controlled shots from the start - you can't. Concentrate on form just as much (or more) as physical strength development. It takes time, but you should be able to accomplish this goal. One last word for emphasis - CAUTION. Patience is your friend. Good luck!

[madmaxthc]

I made the step from 58# to 78# when I decided to go heavy. That's a big jump, but it can be done. I was successful, but I do not recommend it. As you stated, you have been told you don't need that much pull but still want it. Go for it,
 but go slow and be cautious. Down the road I developed shoulder issues requiring surgery, so I know what can happen. I dropped back to 65# for a number of years and am now comfortable at 53#. Shoot only those numbers of arrows that you can control. Don't flatter yourself and think you can shoot dozens of controlled shots from the start - you can't. Concentrate on form just as much (or more) as physical strength development. It takes time, but you should be able to accomplish this goal. One last word for emphasis - CAUTION. Patience is your friend. Good luck!

Thank you, Sam,

I appreciate your advice and warnings. One thing I've learned shooting hunting bows is that when I'm tired, it's time to stop. Or I'll start using accessory muscles that I shouldn't be using, and get hurt. Fingers crossed, I am looking forward to my next bow 

[adkmountainken]

i made the jump from #60 to #75 without much of a problem took a little to get use to but now shooting very well. i bought a Northen Mist Sprague from Steve and it is a smooth drawing bow smoother then most which i think helps a lot. good luck my friend!

[Wilderlife]

I guess everybody is different, so take from this what you can get out of it.

I shoot a 75lb Blackwidow longbow and have done so for years. Almost daily, I shoot 40-50 arrows with it, and usually shoot it very easily, and usually shoot it better than just average.

But,,,, about three-ish years ago a mate bought an 80lb Blackwidow recurve (and what a looker it was too) and gave me a go with it.

I thought this should be easy, I'll draw that, it's only another 5lbs, that's nothing.

Boy was I wrong, I simply could not get it back to full draw (I draw just a fuzz under 28") He could shoot it though, and he shot it well.

So, I think that day I found my limit of what draw weight I can shoot accurately and consistantly with, 75lb, NOT 80lb, even though it's only a mere 5lb heavier.

What I'm trying to offer here (I think  ) is once you start getting up in draw weight (and 65lb is starting to get up there) maybe go for small increments, like 5lb if possible, and MASTER that weight before going up again.

But I'm guessing, like me, you will more than likely find a maximum weight you can master and shoot well with.

Good luck and have fun 

Best
Lex

Hey mate,

Out of interest, how long is your Widow longbow? I wonder whether the length of the bows has something to do with how they feel when you draw?

I regularly watch videos of that fella shooting his 80# PCH and it looks like a huge amount of effort but he definitely does a good job. also one of the best looking bows I've ever seen!

I don't have much else to offer this thread besides saying 65# is about my limit for the moment and if I ever feel the need to go heavier it'll require a lot more strength training, as well as archery training. I'm only 5ft 7in and about 175lb so I regularly lift weights and exercise to keep my body in decent enough condition to be able to pull heavier bows comfortably.

And YES, I know you don't necessarily need to lift weights to pull heavy bows and I know John Schulz wasn't real big. I'm just offering my experience, however limited it may be. 

[Wilderlife]

EDIT: Double post?

[madmaxthc]

Thank you all for your advice.

Would the classiefield have second hand bows? I have never visited that part of Tradgang, but I was wondering if they sell second hand bows there.

Thank you,
Max

[Ghost Dog]

Here's a slightly different take on your question.

You should be more concerned with the durability of your connective tissues. Muscle tissue will adapt to stress my getting stronger, connective tissue will thicken as a response to stress, but not become stronger in the way muscle tissue does. At some point your muscles will outperform your ligaments and tendons, and you'll develop an injury that will be difficult to heal from.

Every archer I know, and i know a bunch, who shot bows above 60# and higher has regrets. Some of these guys can't draw a bow at all or can't draw a bow above 35#-40#. 

65# is plenty, but you'll need to think about the long haul. You'll need a strength training program to keep your shoulders, which comprise three separate muscles, and your back, strong throughout their range of motion.

[madmaxthc]

Here's a slightly different take on your question.

You should be more concerned with the durability of your connective tissues. Muscle tissue will adapt to stress my getting stronger, connective tissue will thicken as a response to stress, but not become stronger in the way muscle tissue does. At some point your muscles will outperform your ligaments and tendons, and you'll develop an injury that will be difficult to heal from.

Every archer I know, and i know a bunch, who shot bows above 60# and higher has regrets. Some of these guys can't draw a bow at all or can't draw a bow above 35#-40#. 

65# is plenty, but you'll need to think about the long haul. You'll need a strength training program to keep your shoulders, which comprise three separate muscles, and your back, strong throughout their range of motion.

Thank you for your observations, Ghost Dog, good point. I injured my rotator's cuff in the gym a few years ago (bow arm), and through physical therapy I have learned the value of working out the deltoids, and the higher back muscles, which I keep training regularly to this day. Trying to play the long game, and keep my shoulders healthy 👍👍