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Author Topic: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?  (Read 7902 times)

Offline beemann

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2022, 07:11:54 PM »
Nice video bud.  Your message is what many of us have been saying for years.... Shooting heavy bows takes work and commitment. Its not complicated...  Carry on... 

Offline Red Beastmaster

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2022, 02:29:59 PM »
As my whiskers started turning white I began dropping bow weight. Each new bow was 5lbs less. It was a gradual transformation that spanned thirty years. I dropped 20lbs of draw weight in that time. The five bows I currently own are 42#-44# at my draw. I'm shooting better than ever.

A man's got to know his limitations.
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Online Wudstix

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2022, 06:15:30 PM »
I always judge max bow weight by what I cab draw and shoot while seated.

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Offline jr1959

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2022, 06:21:09 PM »
Nice video! I’ve had to drop bow weight from mid sixties due to a severely arthritic shoulder.  I switched to lefty and had a reverse shoulder replacement 2 years ago.  I kept shooting lefty and now handle low 50’s but I had to really work at it.  What type of bow case is that?
'59 Kodiak 45# Gainesville 60" LH
Jim Hoker Woodspirit Bows 60#, 55#, 48#
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Online Rob DiStefano

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2022, 09:54:50 AM »
Good video, Dylan.

For a newbie, holding weight at full draw is nothing short of Critical, and without very careful bow selection is one major reason why failure is almost guaranteed.

For the seasoned trad archer, if the required physicality is available, performance requires dedication.  No dedication to performance typically segues into being overbowed.  This is what I see happening to many trad archers as the years progress.  That 65# stickbow that was once well under their control, is no longer, due to many reasons, but mainly loss of dedication.  Dropping down in holding weight, and the fun reason for another bow acquisition, is a usual result.  As long as the lethality of the kit (the bow and the arrows) mates the critters to be hunted, no problem.

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Offline rufus_d

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2022, 10:56:22 AM »
like them or not, super recurves have made all the difference for me. Price of course is a major factor, but time and extra projects fixed that.

Offline Wilderlife

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2022, 03:04:30 PM »
Sorry I haven't responded for a little bit. I've been away doing other things.

Thanks for all the kind words and thanks for taking an interest in the video. It's nice to see it is being taken in the context/perspective intended and discussing things. I've had people in other places want to criticise me for wanting to shoot a bow like that and I've found a lot of people on the internet want to judge very quickly rather than be curious and ask questions.

The bow cases I use are by an Australian brand but I believe there are some places to buy them over in America. If you are on Instagram look up someone called 'trad_bow_newbie' and there may be a discount code there. If you send Little Ax a message (his name is Anthony) he may be able to tell you where to buy them in America.

https://littleaxoutdoors.com/

Offline Boone the Hunter

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2022, 09:54:43 AM »
  Great and helpful topic to discuss wish I knew going into trad archery years ago. Been shooting prob about 15 years now I’m a tall skinny guy not a ton of strength. I started with a bow in the low-mid 50’s thinking that’s not much. Long story short 15 years and probably 10 bows later I shoot a rig that’s perfect but it took so long to really figure out dropping a couple pounds at a time. Long story short super recurves have helped the guys like me shooting lower poundage hunting big bodied Midwest deer. I shoot a Morrison super curve [email protected] and it smokes a heavy arrow like my 50+ pound bows used to but I have all the control in the world to make good shots.
  Shooting a heavy bow with bad form ripping arrows actually got so bad I developed all sorts of bad habits shooting right handed and even walked away from it all for about a year as I couldn’t make the shots hunting to be confident. I of course came back because all other gear leaves you sad and empty once you are in deep haha. I started shooting lighter bows left handed with proper form thanks to several good resources determined to relearn but the right way. 7 years later I’m shooting indoor leagues and making good clean kills with confidence 10 times that I ever had before. End of the day my point is I couldn’t do it with a bow that’s too much weight for me, we’re all different strength wise of course and that lines different for everyone but makes a huge difference.
 
Love the Lord, love your wife and kids, work hard, hunt harder

Offline Wilderlife

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2022, 03:32:58 PM »
That's a massive wingspan you've got, mate.

Absolutely on the money. Shooting a bow that is 'too much' too often is usually going to lead to problems. Hence the video; I make a conscious effort to only shoot my heavier bows when I am in the right mindset and know I can complete my shot sequence permanently. Working at the outer edge of my limit isn't a problem when I know I'm there, but when I first started out and I just kept shooting how I thought I was supposed to saw me develop a few issues.

I don't know much about super curves but they certainly seem to be a comfortable way to shoot heavy arrows in hunting situations. I'll have to try one at some point but right now I'm finding the longbows to be the coolest.

Online Rob DiStefano

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2022, 07:27:04 AM »
I think that the vast, larger percentage of trad archers are all capable of adding considerable holding weight to their current stickbows. 

To do this properly requires a proper process .. and doing this properly requires dedication.

Once that heavier holding weight is attained, it also requires consistent "maintenance" - perhaps weekly practice at the least = dedication.  Some have it, some don't.  Not a good or bad thing, it is what it is and we all have choices.

There's nothing at all wrong with having the ability to absolutely control a 67lb holdiing weight stickbow during a hard hunt - that's to be admired, IMHO.

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with having the ability to perfectly control a 41lb holding weight stickbow during a hard hunt - whatever gets the job at hand well and ethically done, and critters in the freezer.

"Perfect control" and "consistent accuracy" is the name of the game.

 :campfire:
 



IAM ~ The only government I trust is my .45-70 ... and my 1911.

Offline archeryprof

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2022, 09:11:29 AM »
Good video.One of the common issues I see is when introducing archers transitioning from shooting high poundage compounds to traditional archery is the mindset that a heavy poundage bow is necessary.They buy a trad bow that's a struggle for them to draw and as a result are unable to learn the basic proper form required to shoot accurately.They then become frustrated and give up on it.

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2022, 01:25:37 PM »
Nice video indeed.  I can still walk out and shoot my 64# MOAB cold without issue, but not my 70#er.  Haven't shot the 70 in a couple of years so I'd need to work into it as I would be over bowed with her while hunting at this point. Been shooting since I was 8 and shot 70 - 80 for years and have been mostly shooting 60-70 the last 10 years, mostly 60.

Everyone is different, and one size doesn't fit all for sure. 
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Offline Archie

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2022, 04:45:03 PM »
Great video.  And this is a great thread.  I enjoy shooting my heavier bow limbs, but it usually takes me a few weeks to build my strength back up after not shooting much through the winter.  Even then... I think that 68# at my draw is probably the heaviest I will ever shoot.  So many problems develop when overbowed, I've experienced it firsthand. 

It would be interesting to see someone post a workout regimen (using a bow, but using workout equipment as well) that is specifically designed for getting one's self from "overbowed" to "bowed".
Life is a whole lot easier when you just plow around the stump.

2006  64" Black Widow PMA
2009  66" Black Widow PLX
2023  56" Cascade Archery Whitetail Hawk
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Offline Lori

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2022, 05:19:25 PM »
Being a weak old woman, I work out with elastic bands year long, just so i can shoot my 38 pound bows. One thing that I wonder about is my arrow weight, I am told that they are from 430 to 440 grains. My husband made some fir arrows for a friend's 47 at his draw Robertson longbow. He was shooting cedar and aluminums before. "They fall out of the air like lead balloons", he said. When comparing them at 24 yards out back, we could see little, if any, difference. He still insisted that they were falling from the sky. Then a bow sight was taped onto his bow. He took careful aim while we checked his draw length. It took a few shot to get the sight on target. He shot really well with it. Guess what the difference was between the lighter aluminum arrows with the 4" feathers were to the fir arrows with big feathers at a little over 20 yards. None. Sometimes I wish that I would have worked harder on my strength when I was younger, but I am repeated told, "don't worry about it, if I was worried about it I would still be shooting the heavy bows myself."  He can talk, he shoots 55 pound bows all day, while I can only take a few shots with my 42 pound bow.

Offline Wilderlife

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2022, 05:29:27 PM »
The perfect weight for me, because I shoot 300 arrows in a practice day , is 38-41 lbs,which also happens to be what a lot of trad target archers shoot. Get a highly reflexed or tip forward longbow.  :archer2:
I'm sure 300 arrows a day is normal for a lot of people but I rarely shoot that much. Just the way I work I guess. I'm sure I could benefit from doing it but I like to keep my practice in small stints as I'm usually busy doing other interesting things like guitar playing or hunting.

I think that the vast, larger percentage of trad archers are all capable of adding considerable holding weight to their current stickbows. 

To do this properly requires a proper process .. and doing this properly requires dedication.

Once that heavier holding weight is attained, it also requires consistent "maintenance" - perhaps weekly practice at the least = dedication.  Some have it, some don't.  Not a good or bad thing, it is what it is and we all have choices.

There's nothing at all wrong with having the ability to absolutely control a 67lb holdiing weight stickbow during a hard hunt - that's to be admired, IMHO.

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with having the ability to perfectly control a 41lb holding weight stickbow during a hard hunt - whatever gets the job at hand well and ethically done, and critters in the freezer.

"Perfect control" and "consistent accuracy" is the name of the game.

 :campfire:
 




Dedication is the key I reckon, mate. Everyone has a threshold that they can reach when doing something casually (any hobby/interest is like this) and then to get to the 'next level' it requires dedication - mentally, physically, etc. It's like the strength training; everyone gets a little bit stronger fairly easily because they are honing their technique and spacing their workouts out nicely, but once they start to plateau, they need to really look at their diet and rest in order to keep making gains.

Good video.One of the common issues I see is when introducing archers transitioning from shooting high poundage compounds to traditional archery is the mindset that a heavy poundage bow is necessary.They buy a trad bow that's a struggle for them to draw and as a result are unable to learn the basic proper form required to shoot accurately.They then become frustrated and give up on it.
Absolutely, mate. It's hard to convince someone who shoots a 70# compound that a 45# traditional bow will be a decent workout to start with.

Nice video indeed.  I can still walk out and shoot my 64# MOAB cold without issue, but not my 70#er.  Haven't shot the 70 in a couple of years so I'd need to work into it as I would be over bowed with her while hunting at this point. Been shooting since I was 8 and shot 70 - 80 for years and have been mostly shooting 60-70 the last 10 years, mostly 60.

Everyone is different, and one size doesn't fit all for sure. 

That's a lot of shooting with heavier bows mate but I guess doing it for so long just makes it part of your DNA.

Great video.  And this is a great thread.  I enjoy shooting my heavier bow limbs, but it usually takes me a few weeks to build my strength back up after not shooting much through the winter.  Even then... I think that 68# at my draw is probably the heaviest I will ever shoot.  So many problems develop when overbowed, I've experienced it firsthand. 

It would be interesting to see someone post a workout regimen (using a bow, but using workout equipment as well) that is specifically designed for getting one's self from "overbowed" to "bowed".

I think I might include something like that in a follow up video of sorts, mate. I'm not saying everyone needs to be a gym junkie by any means, but the way I lift weights directly relates to archery. There are also lots of exercises you can do that specifically engage your back so you know what that feels like, which therefore makes it easier to find back tension and maintain that feel when you go to your bows.

Being a weak old woman, I work out with elastic bands year long, just so i can shoot my 38 pound bows. One thing that I wonder about is my arrow weight, I am told that they are from 430 to 440 grains. My husband made some fir arrows for a friend's 47 at his draw Robertson longbow. He was shooting cedar and aluminums before. "They fall out of the air like lead balloons", he said. When comparing them at 24 yards out back, we could see little, if any, difference. He still insisted that they were falling from the sky. Then a bow sight was taped onto his bow. He took careful aim while we checked his draw length. It took a few shot to get the sight on target. He shot really well with it. Guess what the difference was between the lighter aluminum arrows with the 4" feathers were to the fir arrows with big feathers at a little over 20 yards. None. Sometimes I wish that I would have worked harder on my strength when I was younger, but I am repeated told, "don't worry about it, if I was worried about it I would still be shooting the heavy bows myself."  He can talk, he shoots 55 pound bows all day, while I can only take a few shots with my 42 pound bow.

I think the arrow weight plays a big role in how a bow feels when it's shot as well. I hear and see people getting put off by heavy bows because they think they kick or recoil. similar to rifle shooting - they lose confidence and get a bit scared. If the arrow is heavy enough however, the bows behave beautifully.

At the moment I have 600gn arrows for my 62# recurve and 650gn arrows for my 65# longbow. I may make up some arrows for my longbow soon that'll be a little lighter, which isn't desirable but it's what I happen to have on me at the moment. In the future there are some arrows I want to look into that may come to about 700gns and I think that would be fantastic in my 65# longbow.

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2022, 06:03:22 PM »
Well the best exercise for drawing a bow is drawing a bow.  And draw it with both sides.

You can start out with 3 reps of 6 each side every other day so the body can rebuild on the off day. Then after a couple of weeks you might try 3 sets of 8, Then 4 sets of 8 a couple of weeks later. Also, then incorporate a slow let down for negative resistance strength.

Pretty simple. 
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Offline Archie

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2022, 06:12:35 PM »
Well the best exercise for drawing a bow is drawing a bow.  And draw it with both sides.

You can start out with 3 reps of 6 each side every other day so the body can rebuild on the off day. Then after a couple of weeks you might try 3 sets of 8, Then 4 sets of 8 a couple of weeks later. Also, then incorporate a slow let down for negative resistance strength.

Pretty simple.


My routine is pretty simple... 3 sets of 10 reps daily, each side.  I remove my bow quiver so I can do it on both sides.  I also measured a bare shaft and put a zip tie on the end right at the point where, when I hit full draw, the zip tie sticks out and hits my bow hand.  That helps my muscle memory to "feel" the point of full draw, and not draw short nor over.  But I'd be interested in an archer's proven way to work the back and shoulders with upright rows, bent rows, lat pull-downs, pull-ups, etc., that would specifically help round out the drawing muscles for the string hand side, and the pushing muscles of the bow-hand side.  I already work out in my basement with the basic push-ups, curls, etc., but I'm always looking to learn more.
Life is a whole lot easier when you just plow around the stump.

2006  64" Black Widow PMA
2009  66" Black Widow PLX
2023  56" Cascade Archery Whitetail Hawk
2023  52" Cascade Archery Golden Hawk Magnum

Offline Wilderlife

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2022, 07:17:39 PM »
Absolutely fellas, BUT, I have seen a lot of newbies go to draw a bow using their shoulders and their understanding of how to use or activate their back muscles is severely lacking. Of course, with a light enough bow this can be taught, but various cable and rowing exercises in the gym can be a really good way to have them squeeze the right parts of their back and start becoming familiar.

Besides that, there is the obvious idea of getting stronger in your back/chest/shoulder/core in the gym so lots of things in life are easier - drawing a bow, splitting firewood, etc.

Offline Terry Green

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2022, 07:30:30 PM »
Correct Wilderlife, you need to learn to draw properly with your back and proper alignment.  There is a lot of info on this on the Shooters Forum's form clock thread stickied at the top.

https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=109531.0

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"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline Mike Malvaini

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Re: Being overbowed - are you overbowed?
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2022, 07:38:40 AM »
That thread is great.  Funny it also shows how much tech has changed since 2007.  I know that there was much better ways for some people to do 'graphic' stuff, but us average Joes made it work with the simple 'paint' feature.  :biglaugh:

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