Stabilizing Burl

[Mike L.]

Anybody that’s done any stabilizing with a vacuum pump know if this pump will be sufficient or do I need to start looking for another method?  I haven’t tried yet, I’m just trying to get what I need and I’m going to start trying to put together a suitable container, too.

[Crooked Stic]

Not familiar with that pump.
For Cactus Juice my setup will get to 28 in. The more the better. Mine is a vane type pump running in oil.  I use sch. 40 PVC capped on the bottom and 1,/2 lexan lids.  I cut my pieces so they fit inside 4 in section of pvc. Not super tight cause the juice swells them. I have another empty chamber between the pump and main chamber to keep the juice out of the pump. Don't ask
Can get you pics in a bit.

[Mike L.]

Thank you, man.  I was thinking of using 4 or 6” pvc pipe with caps.  I read somewhere that the pump needs to generate 29.5 Hg, and this one says it can do 25.5 Hg, so I’m assuming it’s good for veneers only.  I think there’s some way to use an air compressor, though, so I might look into that.  I was wondering how you get the piece to cure without losing the juice? 

[Crooked Stic]

For the seals on the lids I got a 1/8 th rubber sheet and trim to access fittings. If you got facbook Turn Tex has page that is really helpful. You want your wood to be 0 moisture if possible.

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Crooked stic, are you dying the wood as well?

[knuklhed]

I'm just getting started, too. I'll be watching this thread. I cut some burls this fall, so it is a next year project for them. I used 3" clear PVC, first tried a 3" cap, it leaked down too fast, then turned an aluminum cap with an "O" ring for the seal. Much more goodly. The pic is of the old cap. Just spitballing, but if you can't get down to 28 inches, would time under vacuum be your friend? And, I've read and seen on Youtube that the soak is vital to good penetration too.

[Tim Finley]

Your pump is strong enough 3 cfm is enough  you have 5 . Buckeye burl even if stabilized is not strong enough for a handle I tested one with a 50# limbs and the handle was reinforced wth 1/4 " g 10 and it still failed .

[Crooked Stic]

Yeah they sell a lot of colors of dye. You need to leave under vac. Until most of the bubbles are gone.
I have found maples take the juice really good. Walnut needs to be really dry and needs longer soak time after the vac.

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Hmm, I may have to try this just for dying maple through and through!

[Flem]

That resin infusion would be faster and more effective if the air was evacuated first and the resin then drawn into the chamber by vacuum. As it stands the juice and the air are trying to occupy the same space squeezing past each other in those microscopic interstitial spaces in the wood.

CFM has nothing to do with ultimate vacuum achieved. Higher CFM will evacuate the air faster in a very large chamber, but thats not relevant here. For instance Stic's chamber looks to be maybe 6"X24", thats one cubic foot.
20 seconds to evac vs. 12 seconds.

I need to correct myself. 6X24 is one square foot. The volume of the cylinder is 678cuin, thats a little more that 1/3 of a cubic foot. So the evac time is more like 7 seconds vs 4 seconds.

[Crooked Stic]

Flem you need to go on the Turn Tex page Curtiss has done research and knows what works best for his product.
Have found everything to work well that he recomends.
The fact of the matter is buy the time you get setup and buy the juice and the wood you may be better off buying the wood already stabilized.

[Flem]

My thought was not really specific to any products, thinking more about physical laws and fluids + gasses in the same space. If you eliminated the gas from the chamber the fluid will have less resistance to overcome and fill the voids faster.

[Crooked Stic]

Well someone asked the question and test show the results are the same.

[Stagmitis]

Turntex does have a lot of good info- He reccomednds using an Oil Filled Rotary Vane Pump compared to the other style pumps( diaphragm, vaccum generator)

My question is if this type can be used for both wood stabilization as well as vaccum bagging composites?

[Flem]

I did not find any reference to evacuating the chamber air and then while under vacuum, drawing the resin into the chamber. I know when vacuum infusing composites, the protocol is to evac the gasses before opening the infusion line to insure complete saturation.

Stagmitis, that the preferred type of pump for all applications. The other common style is a piston/diaphram pump and they typically don't pull as hard or last as long. What ever style someone gets, the important thing to note is if its continuous duty rated, especially if you are not going to add a tank to the setup.

[Crooked Stic]

When the vacuum is released atmosperic pressure is what pushes the juice in.

[Stagmitis]

Thanks Flem-

Stic i agree its pricey to get the eqipment to do this but I have a lot of nice pieces that could use help-I guess the alternative is ship out periodically as needed which might be a Pia.

[Crooked Stic]

If a guy was selling I guess you could add it in the price.
I asked the question on the Turn Tex page on FB but can't get it to copy and paste here about covering the wood or letting the juice in after vac.

[Flem]

Stic, I would not trust the "cognoscenti" on FB. This is how its been done most effectively, despite what the "copy" on the website claims.

Impregnation process
The most widely used method to saturate wood with impregnation resins is by a vacuum treatment process.[23] This process uses a sealable vessel to contain the wooden samples while they are in treatment. After the samples have been oven-dried and placed into the vessel, a vacuum is pulled up to a certain psi depending on the procedure. Then the resin of choice is introduced into the vessel by a backfilling process and remains in a vacuum pulled state for the amount of time dictated by the procedure. Once the samples have been under vacuum for a sufficient amount of time for the resin to enter the wood the vacuum is released, and the samples remain in the resin solution to allow diffusion to happen.[24] Diffusion is not controlled by the vacuum stage of the process, it is purely controlled by time.[1] If the resin meets all of the required specifications, it will diffuse into the cell wall and the impregnation process will be complete.[1]

Stagmits, you can build a virtually free vac pump from an old fridge or freezer compressor. They can be surprisingly effective. I had one for my first pump and it pulled the equivalent of 27inhg. The downside is they typically burn out fast if used continuously.

[Crooked Stic]

Well Sir Flem. The info I got came from the guy that sells and uses a lot of the juice he has tested it both ways and sees no difference in results  but the covered wood is preferred method.
And I get good results that way also.
Have you used cactus juice.