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Author Topic: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...  (Read 814 times)

Offline Rigs

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Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« on: May 03, 2008, 03:26:00 PM »
On a bulls eye, I seem to struggle a bit.  But on an animal target, or animal (besides the adrenaline rush) I seem to shoot pretty well.

Anyone else experience this, and any opinions why?

Happy hunting,
Jason
Hunting and Fishing ARE family values!  Lifetime member Traditional Bowhunters of Montana, member of Compton Traditional Bowhunters

Offline Ian johnson

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2008, 04:07:00 PM »
on a normal target, my shooting is pretty bad, but when I am stump shooting or shooting and cans and milk jugs, my shooting is good, I think its because all the rings and circles throw off concentration
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Offline SoNevada Archer

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2008, 04:24:00 PM »
Yes I have a simular problem...I have a hard time with the yellow inner rings of some paper targets for some reason.
But when shooting at bales of hay or my 3-D targets, I seem to do much better.
The doom of man...that he forgets!

Offline Phil Tuccillo

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2008, 04:29:00 PM »
That's me all the way, tried to shoot a indoor winter league to keep up on my shooting when the season was over. I was all over the place, I am way more consistant with animal targets. I know consistancy on a bullseye can improve your shooting skills but personally I can't get to excited over a bullseye.

Offline sagebrush

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2008, 04:59:00 PM »
I think it has to do with the excitement(as Phil said) and ability to burn a hole in the target with your eye. When you are going to shoot a real animal there is never a lapse of concentration. At least it is that way with me. One problem that you can have is you are paying so much attention to the animal that you forget to take care of your shooting. That's where practice comes in. Gary

Offline KSdan

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 11:58:00 PM »
I used to say the same thing until I realized that the bullseye was actually revealing my true ability.  Stump shooting and animals allowed me to be inches off and still feel pretty good.  May not be the same for you. . .

Good story though:  A friend of mine was golfing with Joe.  Joe was cussing-mad as he was hitting the ball all over the place-slice, shank, etc. my friend finally spoke up and said, "I can tell you your problem."  "Really," Joe retorted.  My friend replies "You are just not that good.  If you would accept it, you wouldn't be upset."

True story!
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Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

Offline Leon.R

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 09:22:00 AM »
I just got done shooting with a friend in his back garden, his first time shooting a bow.
I was hitting the bag consistantly but not good grouping, hang a tennisball on a string in front and al of a sudden kept on hitting or brushing it I think you consentrate more on hitting a small target and even though the bag is behind it you still see it as missing where as on paper you never actually miss.
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Offline adirondack46r

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 10:55:00 AM »
I'm with Dan. I have had a couple of guys tell me the same thing, and everytime I went hunting with them I ended up tracking gut-shot deer. Once you have form and concentration down it doesn't matter if your shooting at bullseyes, walnuts, stumps, squirrels or buffalo. And just so you don't think I'm ripping on anyone's shooting skills, I'm consistently mediocre. ;-)

Offline BUFF

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 10:57:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by KSdan:
I used to say the same thing until I realized that the bullseye was actually revealing my true ability.  Stump shooting and animals allowed me to be inches off and still feel pretty good.  May not be the same for you. . .

Good story though:  A friend of mine was golfing with Joe.  Joe was cussing-mad as he was hitting the ball all over the place-slice, shank, etc. my friend finally spoke up and said, "I can tell you your problem."  "Really," Joe retorted.  My friend replies "You are just not that good.  If you would accept it, you wouldn't be upset."

True story!
pretty much the same with me. If I just shoot my 3-d Targets I get lazy. I can be off a 5 or 6 inchs and still my self " that would have killed it" I try to shoot dots some every time I pratice. it makes me bare down.

Offline Billy

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 11:06:00 AM »
KSDan - that's why we have FRIENDS...
..I ?think?  :eek:    :bigsmyl:    :wavey:  
what worked for me, was to make the Bullseye - smaller- a piece of colored tape works...
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Offline nutmeg

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 11:12:00 AM »
I agree with Dan and Adironack. If you can shoot it doesn't matter what you're shooting at. I think it's a matter of concentration or some sort of target panic. Maybe it's the lack of a definite reference point. I see it and hear it at our shop all of the time. Shooting at a bull definitely quantifies your shooting ability. JMHO (nut)  :bigsmyl:
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Offline SoNevada Archer

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2008, 12:00:00 PM »
Well you guys are probably right. All I know is I don't shoot as well at paper. I also know I just flat need more practice!!!
The doom of man...that he forgets!

Offline Lil Red

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 12:11:00 PM »
Thats a problem I had when I shot 3-D'S for a local archery shop. Went to shooting for fun much better and more fun leave the score card at the sign in table. I bet your looking at the whole target and not picking a spot. I have this problem sometimes.

Offline Rigs

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2008, 12:18:00 PM »
At 25 yds yesterday I placed three arrows tight to my Elk targets front leg with two touching.  The other was within an inch.  No bone involved in the hits.  I then shot the bull at 25 yds and had a 5-6" group.  1 arrow in the middle, the other two at 3 and 9 roughly out side the 5" circle.  The bull  looks like an O with the middle white, a thick black ring, then the rest of the bag target is white.

Like I said bulls not so good....3-ds and critters, good.  I wish I could explain.

Happy hunting,
Jason
Hunting and Fishing ARE family values!  Lifetime member Traditional Bowhunters of Montana, member of Compton Traditional Bowhunters

Offline Otto

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2008, 12:21:00 PM »
3 D targets are deceptive in telling a person how good of a shot they are.  The scoring areas are much bigger than on a bullseye target.  Shoot a few arrows, get a 10 and a few 8's and we're content with that.  But put those same arrows in their same respective positions on a blue face target and suddenly reality sets in.  Those shots that looked good on a 3-D target don't score so well in reality.

Think of the "8" zone on a MacKensie deer.  A far back "8" shot is a good 5 inches from the center of the 10 ring.  Heck, on a blue face taget that'll put you in the next to outer ring.
Otto

Offline Daddy Bear

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2008, 03:00:00 PM »
Rigs, If you were speaking of inconsistent accuracy whether it be on a live squirrel or a live deer in a hunting situation in addition to inconsistent accuracy on a 3d target and various scoring ring targets in a tournament/target situation; I think it would be fair to say the inconsistency was a basic marksmanship issue.

But, there are ample examples where a proven marksman who was a champion at shooting scoring ring targets in a tournament situation yet would have great difficulty in shooting an obscure target w/ out scoring rings in a hunting environment. Conversely, there are ample examples of persons having proven their field marksmanship on obscure alive game animals in a hunting environment yet would have great difficulty in hitting a large brightly colored round target in a tournament environment. This would be a practice/training issue. This applies to many disciplines of marksmanship and is not limited to bows and arrows.

If you were to practice and train in pistol Bullseye to become a champion, you would greatly improve your basic pistol marksmanship skills. But, if you wanted to greatly improve your field marksmanship skills to accurately place a killing shot in a combat environment afield, the method of training and the simulation targets chosen would be far different than Bullseye. The same applies for the Feds and the cops who train to improve their field marksmanship skills by utilizing obscure targets w/ vaguely defined kill zones, not by using scoring ring targets in a target environment.

Shooting and killing an obscure human being in a life or death combat environment is of greater gravity and of greater consequence than killing an obscure game animal in a hunting environment, but shooting a game animal does have gravity and is of great consequence none the less. Both share many basic elements in method and both share differences with that of scoring ring targets in a tournament environment.

As it relates to archery, a great example of this was written by Saxton Pope about Young, Ishi, and himself. Both Pope and Young were above average shooting the American Round. Young was well above average. Ishi was absolutely aweful yet he could shoot rings around Pope and Young on game animals both large and small. Pope documented how Ishi was good at hitting game as small as flying birds out to 20yards. In addition, Ishi could outshoot Pope and Young in his form of stump shooting where he shot arrows through small rolling hoops and hit small balls made up to represent game animals. Pope wrote how Ishi was frustrated that he(Pope) was able to shoot the American round well yet was unable to hit a deer. In fact, Pope did not kill his first deer w/ a bow and arrow until after Ishi's death. Both did well in their own methods of training but both suffered when in the other man's court as the methods were different. One method proved better for bright colored scoring ring targets while the other method was better for obscure targets.

A good modern example is the Olympic archer who was filmed on a hunting trip where he missed an easy shot on a big deer. Again, this is a training/practice issue. If you want to better your skills at hitting obscure live game animals in a hunting environment, be creative and practice on targets that simulate the game you seek in an environment that duplicates your hunting environment, and hunt as often as you can. If you want to better your skills on an indoor tournament Bullseye, paractice on such targets in a simular environment and enter as many tournaments as you can. If you want to do well in both, practice both.

later,
Daddy Bear

Offline Phil Tuccillo

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2008, 03:29:00 PM »
I have a bird hunting friend who is the man on the skeet range (competively) and is one of the worst shots on upland birds I know. His ability on the skeet range is just differant than his ability in the field. He is more comfortable on the range,and I am more comfortable shooting at animals and animal targets. I totally agree that honing in your accuracy on a bullseye would greatly improve your skills in the field, but its not for everyone. I practice stump shooting,shooting 3ds @ 3d shoots and have had good success in the field on live animals,and @ 3d tournaments. Like Daddy Bear said if you want to do well in both, practice both. I'm a bowhunter not a target archer there is a differance.

Offline bowdude

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2008, 03:49:00 PM »
Rigs - the thing that pops in my mind here is the color of your targets.   I read somewhere long ago that white has the ability to make your eyes want to focus on infinity.  Try shooting a black dot on some brown paper, (grocery bag?), and lets us know what happens.  I would be interested.  And not to add flame to anyone, but any comparison with weapons using sights is a whole different game.

Offline sagebrush

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2008, 04:28:00 PM »
When I am practicing I mostly stump shoot. It is more enjoyable to me. It also helps because the lighting is different on each shot and the yardage is also different. When hunting I focus on a small spot on the animal like a tuft of hair and aim at that. That way if I miss the tuft of hair a couple of inches I still kill the animal. Gary

Offline Ia Hawkeye

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Re: Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2008, 05:23:00 PM »
Why can't the so called experts analyzing everything, accept the fact that many people are much more accurate on game than targets ?  It all boils down to concentration !! It's hard to  (for me and others) to really concentrate on a target round (3-d or whatever) through the whole  shoot.! Whereas when hunting  one usually only gets one shot and full concentration is directed on that one shot !!!!!

I do much better hunting, (one shot), then I do targets, (many ,many shots)..And I know many other bowhunters who are the same)

I don't know how to say it any better. Hope you all understand !

Don't know if this applies to sight shooters or gap shooters, as they have something other then the game (pick a spot) to concentrate on.

Just my thoughts based on  having shot field, paa,3-d, and hunted for over 50 years),.!!!

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