Stink on a bulls eye..but on an animal...

[Otto]

A few years ago at Cloverdale, I had the opportunity to shoot with a fellow who claimed he was just out and out deadly on whitetails.  Clean on out to 30 yards.  Said he never missed.

Through the first five targets he had one 5 and 4 misses. (For those who don't know the scoring at C'dale, anywhere in the 8 ring or better buys you 5 points.  Anything outside the 8 is a zero, and a miss is well...a miss).

I guess he just couldn't concentrate.

[Mike Bolin]

On paper targets, I DO NOT shoot as well as I do on 3D or game. I think it is a matter of aving difficulty picking a spot and I end up shooting at the entire target. It really isn't an issue for me because most of my practice is either stumpin' or at a 3D target. If I would concentrate more on paper and bullseye targets I am sure that I would improve. On the other side of the coin, There is a man in IN, who is in "Bowhunting's Whitetail Masters". Many big whitetails to his credit as well as elk, caribou and bear. If you were at a shoot with him and there is a large group of people, you would think he'd never shot a bow before. If it is just you and him, he is as good as it gets. Mike

[bowdude]

I can totally understand and have been there myself, the first time shooting jitters with strangers or anyone that can make you nervous at a 3D or wherever.  The best shots I typically make and can concentrate the most on are when I am totally alone.  But that is not the point here.  As I understand Rigs statement, it is shooting in the backyard, by himself.  Good on elk targets, bad on a bullseye.  There is something going on there.  We are just trying to help him figure it out.   The guys that say that they are bad at any kind of target period, even when shooting alone, but are killers on game at the same distances, those are hard for most people to believe because usually the "excitement" tends to make people worse.  Where as it can happen I am sure, the fact it is not the norm creates doubt.  How would such a person set reasonable distance standards for themselves?

[laddy]

I have found that if I shoot too much in my backyard my form degenerates. I think there are more of us that get stagnant shooting at the same old thing.  Once it starts it gets into your form every where.  Shooting at a deer target out in the woods by yourself can tell you what you can or cannot do.  I have a friend that cannot shoot at three D events at all, when there are compound shooters watching him.  When it is just us guys, he will say what is wrong with my form?  We watch him shoot and we all agree, nothing is wrong and he quite often out shoots the group.  He is good on standing deer and terrible on pheasants.  Since he knows he is not good at the moving stuff, he does not shoot at moving deer.  He also quit the Three D shoots, we all have our own targets and practice on our own.  I would never declare that I was having a good year if I have not tested myself in the woods first, on small game or a rubber deer.

[Diamond Paul]

Rigs, I read this post on the other site, and I think you are underrating your ability on targets.  What you described was a 6" or tighter group on the target, which is pretty good shooting barebow.  As someone said, that would be all "4's" at least on and indoor target, which is a good score.  I think guys who claim they don't do well at targets but great on game probably don't shoot any better on game, but game animals are bigger targets and the same level of accuracy is not needed to kill them as it is to win trophies.  A hunter also can be picky about which shot he takes and at what distance, which isn't the case on the range.  Also, instinctive shooters are going to have problems maintaining the concentration levels needed to consistently group on spots; they may shoot this one well, and the next one poorly, and so on.  Since they have no aiming reference for different distances, they may have high and low misses when shooting groups for extended periods of time.  But hunting, they only have to focus on one shot, and they can determine the distance and shot angle by being patient.  All of this adds up to success on game, but not on targets.  After all, instinctive shooting was not meant to win Olympic medals, but to work in the field.

[Ia Hawkeye]

Otto,
Not everyone is honest. Many people can't back up what they claim.  There will always be bull****ters.! Then again, there are people who really do shoot better when hunting., be it "concentration", target panic, intimidated by shooting in front of others, etc.

[adirondack46r]

Originally posted by Ia Hawkeye:
Why can't the so called experts analyzing everything, accept the fact that many people are much more accurate on game than targets...

Which experts are we referring to here?

[Ray Hammond]

I'm not sure that's possible. If you can kill game with all the excitement, adrenaline, etc you should be able to smoke targets.

I've seen target shooters who couldnt hit a bull in the axx with a 2x4....but I've never seen a killer who couldnt kill paper too.

There has to be something else going on for you to be having trouble with targets. Are you shooting alone? Are you shooting well on your first couple shots, then relaxing? I recommend stump shooting instead for quality practice.

Just my thoughts.

[Str8Shooter]

I tend to think that the statement of being better on animals vs. targets is kind of a cop out. Let me explain my thinking.

The purpose of practicing on targets is to refine and develop your shot. To improve your form so that it becomes second nature. The spot your shooting at shouldn't matter whether it is paper, foam, or fur. I tend to believe that not shooting targets well is from simply not taking practice seriously. The trouble with that is poor practice leads to poor shooting.

Also, shooting at game requires less exact placement than a target. Honestly, you can kill a deer with a group the size of a dinner plate at ten yard. That same group on a paper target looks a lot worse and might lead some to believe they can't shoot targets well, when in reality its not much different.

[J-dog]

Just practice, you can analyze it all you want, but it is just practice.

I like what some have said about making it as real as possible. I like 3Ds in the back yard from a tree stand or from ground kneeling positions in the brush, different angles and so forth. Obscure the target with brush. close to season I get laughed at cause I have gear on, pack and all. Even at the Fire Station I will put on my pack (take a good ribbin from the my crew!) and try to make a hunting situation.

While I do believe you can be good on animals and not on targets. I am no expert at all and am no way judging, not my right. But I personaly would not feel comfortable taking to the woods after a live animal if I couldn't strike a 3D target well and consistently in the back yard in similar hunting situations.

I really feel confident if I haven't shot for a couple/few days and walk out and place the first arrow n the goodies in a simulated hunting situation.

Just practice, it will happen.

J

[J-dog]

Story:

When I first started trad shooting (16yrs old) I had a gotten real good at dots and bullseyes. Thought I was the stuff! Then I bought a 3D target and STANK! I would put them over the back, under the belly hit in the behind - just stank.

My father was watching me one day cause he knew I was frustrated. He was a Marine and shot on the teams - didn't care at all for bows - he sat and watched me get frustrated that afternoon - then looked at me and said "stop shooting at the deer, shoot at his heart." basically pick a spot. He placed a sticky dot on the heart and I smoked it. Took off the dot and I focused and smoked it. Felt GREAT.

Still will catch myself not picking a spot and I know it soon as the string slips away    . That is where I think I see your dilemma. When I have a live critter in front of me, through all the adrenaline and all the nerves I am focused - period.

Later

J

P.S.

My Father was NOT a bowhunter and never picked up a bow. He was a rifleman. Wondered why in the world I liked bows so much, for him it was the 500 yard mark over 25 yard mark! Shooting is shooting though.