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Author Topic: Missing/ choking  (Read 5093 times)

Offline Sologuy

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Missing/ choking
« on: February 22, 2022, 06:53:19 AM »
Guys......

I hate to admit but need help.  The last few shots at big game I missed shots I never should have missed.
Saturday I shot at a hog...first ever from 15 yards tops.... I shot right over its back...it was perfectly broadside shot. Before the hunt I was shooting bullseye out to 30 yards.
I'm doubting / thinking too much. I shot from my tree saddle and have not shot from elevated spot in a while,MAYBE that played in the equation but I dunno....
Anyway,I feel I get so worked up I hesitate hold my arrow to long..... I shoot instinctive style btw...
I'd like to hear some exercises or things that may help...
Thanks guys
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Offline Sam McMichael

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2022, 09:29:16 AM »
If you ever figure this out, please let me know the secret. My issue is that tend to pluck the string, not every time but enough to be a concern. At this time, I am still in the position of making dozens and dozens of shots trying to concentrate on a smooth release with good back tension. How many times do the experts say you have to repeat an action before it becomes a natural event? It must be an awful lot, considering how long I have been working on this issue. So, I guess you will need to continue the hard work of diligent practice. Do you tend to look up as you release your shot, thus causing you to shoot high? I hope this issue works out well for you. Meanwhile, keep on hunting. Pick a spot and stay on it.
Sam

Online McDave

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2022, 11:05:28 AM »
I shot from my tree saddle and have not shot from elevated spot in a while,MAYBE that played in the equation but I dunno....

This is one variable you could eliminate by practicing shots from elevated positions until you know where you need to hold to hit the target, before you hunt from elevated spots. This will not only give you practical information you need to know, but eliminate one source of anxiety from your load.

For example, if you decide that you need to focus on the bottom of the animal to hit it when aiming instinctively from an elevated position, and you do that when you're hunting but miss high anyway, then you know that something else is going on, like Sam mentioned.  Right now, you just don't know.
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Offline Todd Cook

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2022, 01:20:46 PM »
You got to watch that arrow hit the target. Never take your eye off the spot till it starts squealing.

Offline Larry Dean

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2022, 06:45:26 PM »
Focus control. If you are not looking only where you want the arrow to go and your eyes are dancing, your brain does not get a clear message. I think I know what Howard Hill was thinking about when he was shooting, nothing.  My son who had no trouble shooting tight groups at 30 yards bought a new Mackenzie target shot his first five arrows right over the targets back. That back line on a live deer really can catch the eye and it is hard to break away from. Some people shoot with a different posture at target than they do at a deer, especially from a tree stand. Make sure the form whatever it is remains identical.  If you are looking to see how your arrow flies you were not focused on the spot to begin with.

Offline mgf

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2022, 05:59:27 AM »
I've missed a lot of deer and have managed to get a handle on things a few times so I have a lot to say...unfortunately I have to be quick because I have to get some work done.

For me the first thing is that I don't get many chances...it's a good season if I get to draw my bow once or twice. If I actually get a shot it's a great season except that I've missed most of them. It's like training for years to go to the Olympics and they only let you take ONE shot. One shot to make good on all the practice, preparation and expense...no pressure there.

Shooting from any of my elevated stands does feel a lot different but just practicing from the stand isn't the whole answer.

Once I had a lone doe come from behind me, pass right under my tripod and slowly walked down the trail angled away. PERFECT. I shot over her back at 17 yards. I felt sick and I knew I'd not getting another chance like that that season.

Well she circled around, passed under my tripod and followed the exact same path again. I took the same shot and missed exactly the same way.

Later I put my 3-d deer exactly where the doe was standing and I shot it until I got tired of climbing up and down to get my arrows. I NEVER missed the kill zone.

Offline mgf

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2022, 06:41:27 AM »
 
During the years when I had the most deer traffic I practiced my shooting so much that it was almost stupid and it didn't change a thing. I shot pretty good as long as I wasn't shooting at a deer. I killed rabbits and squirrels with my bow but I usually couldn't hit a deer.

When I would draw on a deer it felt like the first I ever handled a bow. Nothing felt familiar at all.

In my case it's just a head game. More practice on deer would be the best help but that isn't going to happen. For me it's all in what I'm thinking about when I make the shot. Kind of like what Joel Turner preaches. I have to breath, take my time (that doesn't necessarily mean slow) and force myself to think about making the shot. When I can do that, I kill the deer...well, if there are any around. LOL

I can't (or shouldn't) look at "the spot" until it's time to expand and shoot. Prior to that I'm better off looking at the back of my riser. When I used to shoot rabbits with a shotgun I just looked at the brown blur that I wanted to kill and everything else was automatic. It doesn't work that way for me with a bow.

I have to make sure I get to full draw, alignment/back tension and the sight picture looks like it's supposed to. If I can get that far, it feels familiar again and I can shoot like I shoot on the range.

Offline mgf

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2022, 07:45:14 AM »
That was all pretty verbose.

The short version is that for me...when I feel pressured I have to get methodical. 

Online McDave

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2022, 10:32:27 AM »
“ For me it's all in what I'm thinking about when I make the shot.”

Truer words were never spoken.  Only I would add, for me (speaking of myself, not you) it's all in what I’m thinking about, feeling, visualizing, or conceptualizing when I make the shot.  In other words, any mental activity that distracts from concentrating on the shot. 

Your problem sounds a lot like target panic, as did mine, but the common methods of dealing with target panic, i.e. taking control of the shot away from the subconscious mind, were not effective for me.

What was effective was realizing that I had a concentration problem, which is a conscious issue, not a subconscious one.  The issue you describe is a distraction from concentrating on the shot, and the purpose of strengthening concentration is to eliminate distractions.  When I redefined the problem, I was finally able to start doing things that helped me to solve it.

Working on taking control away from the subconscious mind was actually counterproductive for me.  I need my subconscious mind to run programs that I have mastered and no longer need my conscious attention.  It was like trying to repair a car with a broken transmission by working on the clutch.

Obviously, judging by the success of many target panic programs, many people do have a subconscious problem, and are working on fixing the part that is broken.  Many others don't.
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Offline Larry Dean

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2022, 02:51:05 PM »
I practice with intensity that makes other people around me uncomfortable. I work on form aspects one thing at a time up close until is automatic. I practice secondary aiming at various ranges until it become informed instinctive. I had a fellow come over to shoot with me last year, bragged about his 12 step shooting. Not all of the steps were of equal time.  I had a Skoal can lid stuck to the target. He drew very slowly, did this and did that and then held his 35 pound bow back, 6 leaves fell out of the tree, a monarch butterfly drifted past, several birds, a nuthatch, a downy wood pecker and three house finches came to my bird feeders, and then he released. He hit the edge of the lid and said, "ha ha top that!!"  I called to my wife, put the lid back on the Skoal can and handed it to her, "Try to get the thing across the target the first time please."  She did, I stuck it. I did not say anything, but then he went on a negative John Schulz rant. I said, "you done? Goodbye." As brought out above, what are you thinking when you shoot, what are you looking at when you shoot? If you cannot look at the target, while going through your step by step protocols, you could have target panic. I know people that shoot with bow sights that use them almost instinctively, they are pretty good game shots. There needs to be a goal of unloading all of the over thinking baggage when hunting. When trying trying to kill an animal, are you still working form? I would say at that point, that you have not done enough close in practice, working on one aspect of form at a time. Ten shots three times a week won't cut it. It takes a lot more work than that.

Offline GCook

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2022, 05:38:21 PM »
If I'm struggling I just focus on my shot sequence.  The anchor, shoulder and elbow positions, breathing, keeping hand set in anchor point as I release and follow through.  My brain takes care of the "aiming".
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Online PrimitivePete

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2022, 01:26:02 PM »
I'll agree that if by shot time we are worrying about form then that is a lot to be thinking about to get the shot off. My greatest success in the field happens when I am focusing on the game and waiting for the right time to initiate the draw, everything else is flowing naturally otherwise my focus is not where it should be. That doesn't mean I don't have set queues that I expect during the draw/aim/release process, but I don't think about them as if I am waiting for them to happen if that makes sense.

Offline Sologuy

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2022, 08:27:24 AM »
Some REALLY good answers... thanks guys.....    I guess I need to focus more perhaps... trying still to figure out.

Look at this video.... was simply trying to record fletching noise

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Offline Hal Hartness

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Re: Missing/ choking
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2022, 12:31:26 AM »
After years of play and scouting at high sports level. Growing up in a Pro coach and scout home. This always came up and transfers to one of my loves bow hunting and flyfishing. We would call it choking. Think of your view on football and baseball ect. He choked. Question is can it be fixed. Yes Most folks that want the ball when the game is on the line or all the old junk folks say are talking about a learned behavior. no one has a I believe till they have won at some point when the pressure is on. I only won one bow shoot in my whole life yet went 20 without a miss on deer. Not back door braggin just trying to make a point. Shoots were not very important to me I would start off with great shots then fall away over the coarse to come back later on. I just cant stay focused on foam with buddies around just to much fun. Walking woods and stump shooting different target works wonders. Why does everyone tell you to pick as spot a smaller spot  ( cause it work) why does it work. It makes you block out everything else. Like Ill never get a chance at a buck like this in my life. The prize is bigger than the  shot.  Are there ways to fix it yes. You have to work on mind and spirit control. Most folks learn to at the free throw line with many I think I can to I did it once so I can do it again to been here before. Control fear is a key. Great man once said yu cant take a dump with a tight butt. So now Ill pontificat I a cert hypnotist just one of the think i learnt over the year looking at the mind. When you hear folks in the sports world talk about that guy being in the zone. It is he is in his subconscious not conscious mind. You cant think with a 90 mph baseball is it a strike or to low to high. By the time you don thunk it that much yu done missed it. Fear is the greatest killer of all. What would I advise, your placing to high a value on buck size. A does life is just as valued. Sure you can brag more if you kill a big one but is that why you hunt. Work on training yourself to focus on one thing in everyday life. Im driving this road not reading billboards. Im at a game but ill focus on one player without the ball. we live in a world that trains us to see as much as we can all of the time. That training will be there when you want to lock in at a 2 inch patch of hair behind that front leg. You will see the deer, horns, trees on both sides and not miss a thing, it  being  inside your field of view, just not that 2 inch patch of hair. Practice making yourself focus on one thing while the world moves all around you. But most important remind me of all this when I do the same. lol

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