Reading an Osage stave

[Kirkll]

OK..... I've pulled out an old friend that hasn't seen any attention for many years. Whether this status remains friendly is yet to be seen.

The stave is 65" in length and has pretty consistent ring spacing. When i originally had this stave given to me, i built my own draw knives and scrapers and learned to chase rings. I chose a nice consistent ring with decent thickness and have the back of it looking pretty good..... That's as far as i got...

So i'm going to start this process with questions for you experienced self bowyers, and any suggestions would be appreciated as well.  It starts by reading the stave and seeing potential and taking the flaws and characteristics into consideration.

First of all i see a twist in the stave , as well as a kink in one  end that may or may not be straightened with steam considering the grain orientation. The one end has a natural reflex shape that i like the looks of and would like to shape the other end to match it. I was planning on reflexing the tips a bit too.

I'd like your thoughts on what you would do, and recommendations on how to proceed.

Kirk

I've attached a bunch of photos below. If you click on the smaller photos, they will enlarge.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/k1LGMpk6JdSZYmzn7

[Mad Max]

You have a hard one there but it can be done.
Pat will be the most help from the group but I have some ideas too.
3rd pic. is the back? 4th pic. is the side?
If so, How wide is the stave @ that knot hole on pic. 4?

[Kirkll]

Yup... 3rd pic is back, 4th the side. I think that is going to be real tough to straighten to the side and may have to live with it.

 The knot is not even going to be in play. That thing is on the belly side and is only 3/8" deep. i  have over 1 1/2" of thickness at the tip. It will be gone when i rough shape the limb before floor tiller stage.   

Kirk

[Pat B]

What I would do is mark out the rough bow on the stave and cut it out, back profile and side profile. Get it to floor tiller stage then you can start to straightening the stave. Leave the handle full width and make the tips about 1" wide or leave them full width. By leaving the handle full width and the tips wide you can make adjustments later on in the process by removing wood from one side or the other and the same with the tips to line things up. Both of these areas are usually static so the bow can be tillered without shaping them yet.
 Once you get to floor tiller(about 5/8" thick at the fades) it will be easier to make heat corrections. You will have to do this in sections and the lateral bends will be the most difficult so start with them. For the kink at the end of the one end I think I would boil or steam to make the correction. You may have to do this in more than one step. A lot of the other adjustments can probably be done with a heat gun, a form, a few small wood wedges and clamps.
 This should get you started. Post pics along the process to help us help you.

[Kirkll]

Thanks Pat.... I was thinking along the same lines, but may have to narrow up the width profile at the tips prior to steam bending cross grain. That is going to take some patience me thinks.

 This stave is over 1.5" width at the tips right now, and it would be easier to bend with about 7/8" width. That should still give me plenty of room for tip notch adjustment.

I'll post some photos as i make progress...   Kirk

[Kirkll]

OK.... she's got the rough shape and ready to start floor tillering. i left that crooked end a bit wide  until i get it straightened out as much as possible. She's about 5/8 thick at the tips right now.

Do you think i should work on straightening this before i do the tiller work? It seems like that is the next logical step.     Kirk

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ceGMqTx1uN5epMScA

One other thing..... I was considering soaking this crooked end of the stave in a bucket of water for a day before trying to steam it. I've had better luck steam bending doing this, but thought i'd ask your thoughts on this.   

Kirk

[Mad Max]

No don’t soak it

[Pat B]

Kirk, I have heard of folks soaking wood before steaming it with success but I've never done it. What is the back of the stave sealed with? I think I would try to straighten it some at least then start tillering. Once you get to first low brace you will see how the string tracks and where more adjustments are needed.

[Kirkll]

No don’t soak it

So what are your thoughts against soaking it Max? Time for MC level to drop back down again perhaps?    Kirk

[Kirkll]

Kirk, I have heard of folks soaking wood before steaming it with success but I've never done it. What is the back of the stave sealed with? I think I would try to straighten it some at least then start tillering. Once you get to first low brace you will see how the string tracks and where more adjustments are needed.

I hit it with a little spay lacquer to inspect my ring chasing a bit closer. I use this stuff all the time for a sanding sealer, and it sands off easily.   

What do you start out with on low brace height Pat? 3-4”?     Kirk

[Mad Max]

I hear that steaming does not add moisture, seems like it would 
I would not soak it because you would have to wait for it to dry and I don’t think it needs it

[Kirkll]

Now please take this with a grain of salt Max…. I’ve got a bunch of experience in bending wood for furniture and building boats, and even built some walking  canes with a 2” radius bend….

Most of my experience resulted in the wood that I soaked overnight before steaming it was elastic enough to bend at a tighter radius without tearing the grain using thicker laminations. But just steaming it alone required thinner laminations. But I wasn't dealing with a solid piece of wood of any thickness.

Keep in mind this Osage has been setting for 12 years and is pretty dry.

I’m unsure how deep the moisture would penetrate the Osage by soaking it, but my thoughts were it would help the elasticity vs dry heat.   

I do have heat strips I could use when I clamp up the bend that I can regulate the temp to 180-220 degrees. maybe set the timer for an hour or so at 200 and then leave it in the clamps for a day to cool.   That might be helpful.   What do ya think?       Kirk

[Mad Max]

Sounds good to me.
I know moisture is no good for selfbows, but if you let them dry you would be fine

I have wet down some .050 Sitka Spruce (6 at a time) to bend into a 2-1/2" radius and it worked very well.

[Kirkll]

Soaking lumber in water before bending is a pain in the butt and adds a lot more time to the project. I always did my bending first and left it in the clamps for a day or so, then pulled them out to dry for another day or two before laying them up. In this case, that stave has sat for 12 years, a few more days one way or the other makes no difference to me. I may leave it set for a week in the hose after its straight enough before i start floor tiller.

I'm going to dump this stave in a bucket of water and let it set over night, then use steam on it tomorrow before i clamp it up.  I may try using a couple stainless steel heat strips when i clamp it too. The heat may increase the elasticity.      Kirk

[Pat B]

I have heard for years that steam doesn't add moisture but that might depend on the M/C of the wood to begin with. Dean Torges used steam to form green osage staves. He sealed the back with shellac before steaming. Shellac can take the heat and moisture without being adversely affected. By using green osage in the steamer it reduced the M/C of the stave along with adding the side profile reflex of the bow by clamping to a form.
 Kirk, by low bracing you want to see the tight string unobstructed from tip to tip. Anywhere from 2" to no more than 4" to prevent over straining the untillered stave but to be able to see how the string tracks, where heat adjustments are needed.

[Kirkll]

Thanks Pat,
We’ll see how this first bending session goes this morning.  Btw… I tried a bit of floor tiller flexing after roughing the shape out yesterday and There is huge difference between a yew stave and this Osage. This is some stiff material.

One more question for you guys. Once I get ready to long string this thing, do you just use minimal depth side notches on the tips and leave that back ring intact? That’s how I did the yew staves years ago, but this Osage is a completely different beast.

I wouldn’t mind having some different tip overlay options too. I have an assortment of horn material and was thinking this black water Buffalo horn would be a good choice, but have I have no experience attaching this stuff to a stave.
Your recommendations would be appreciated.       Kirk

[Bowjunkie]

The tips are wide, so cut in minimal but safe depth on side grooves, and you'll have room for side to side alignment adjustment.

I've used cow horn and water buffalo horn on many selfbow and bamboo backed bow tips. Grind the tips at an angle, groove both gluing surfaces longitudinally with a fine tooth toothing plane blade, and glue on with Smooth On ea40, clamp lightly or use rubber bands, set a shop light near for warmth. Never had one come loose.

[Kirkll]

Good stuff bowjunkie!  Have ya got some photos of that splice? I’ve seen that done before and am curious at what stage in the tillering process that you splice the tip overlays? Can I assume it’s after long string tracking adjustment? And prior to finish tiller?

Kirk

[Mad Max]

I glue my tip overlay on before the long string tiller
I just file a grove on the back of the overlay not the side

[Pat B]

I do simple side nocks on wider tips then later after the final tip shaping I put on overlays and the permanent nocks.
 I've used antler, horn, hardwood and even rawhide and veg tanned leather saturated with superglue for tip overlays.
Actually, with osage you don't need overlays even with FF type strings.