Efficiency of today’s reflex/deflex longbow vs. yesteryears longbow???.

[Lonster]

I’m new, don’t start hating me just yet.

After reading the thread regarding the current popular poundage in longbows I have a question. What would a modern 45# reflex/deflex longbow compare to in poundage, in efficiency, to a traditional “D” shaped longbow?

I’m sure there’s lots of variables to consider, but aren’t the RD longbows, pound-for-pound, supposed to be a little bit faster when all things (laminates, drawlength, poundage, arrow, etc.) are equal?

I’m seeking knowledge, not argument. I can’t argue this due to the fact that I know absolutely nothing about it.

I’m new, look at my post count. I’ve always had respect for the traditional guys and I’ve always wanted a traditional bow. I’m finally at the point in my life that I’m taking the plunge and not looking back. I’ve ordered a 45# 60” RD longbow. I’ll be shooting carbon arrows. I’m fortunate just to be doing this. Maybe one day I’ll have the time and the resources to try wooden arrows and maybe make my own self bow, I’d love to, however, as for now, too much going on in everyday real life.

Thanks,
Lonster

[PrimitivePete]

Welcome to the Journey !!! To answer your question it really comes down to individual perception. Performance really can't be judged in this general way. There are likely bows on either definition that stand out over others in their class so it's hard to make a general statement about a true comparison. My preference is r/d longbows only because I seem to feel more comfortable shooting them over anything else, but there are exceptions I have come across from recurves to ASL's to selfbows. I'd add it's self bows that have surprised me the most on what I expected the shooting experience to be like. Best of luck, there are certainly many choices but in the end likely what you have in your hand is good enough and more so than not.

[Whiteoak63]

Not sure about comparing because every “Longbow” I have owned over the last 20-25 years has been RD. But don’t second guess your decision of 45# at 29”.
It will kill just fine and be much easier to handle. I have been overbowed several times in the past and it cost me accuracy and target panic from the stand. If it helps you to get an idea about the bow you have coming, my draw length is 2” shorter than yours and my 58” Whistler 46# at 27” is shooting a 535 grain arrow 155 fps.

[Sam McMichael]

Lonster, both R/D bows and ASL's are fine bows, and if you find one that feels best to you, go for it. I have both types, and, while I feel there may be a slight edge in performance with the R/D, I just like my ASL's more. It is strictly a subjective choice. Who knows, you may find yourself owning and enjoying both styles of bows. When it comes down to what an archer prefers, there is no wrong choice.

[MnFn]

Never mind. I agree with the above depending somewhat on what you are hunting.

[Flem]

The answer to the speed question is, yes. The R/D bow will shoot faster that a "D" shaped ELB or a trapezoidal shaped ASL at the same draw length, poundage and arrows. The next question is, Which one do you shoot the best and enjoy the most?

[Steelhead]

Thier are gonna be variations even among R&D style longbows.

Some have very very mild R&D.Some have more moderate R&D and some are at the exteme end with deflex off of the riser and alot of reflex  from mid limb to the tips.A Centaur might be considered more aggresssive or extreme in R&D for example.Thier are others.So you can go from one end of the exteme to another in that type of bow in limb design

The most exteme typically have the most preload.Which is more early poundage at the begining of the draw and will probably have the most performance and or efficiency.I would not base my choice solely on performance however.Other factors to consider ultimatly.

Even more traditionl bows can have variations on thier performance modestly.You have some with reflex and or backset limb.That reflex can vary in amount from very little to more aggressive.Like 2 inches of backset.An example would be the Northern Mist American model with about 2 inches of reflex.Some that straight limbed and some are called string follow that bend toward the archer slightly when unstrung.Reflex tilts away unstrung.Reflex tends to add little speed.You will find archers who prefer any one of these style of bows over the other or may like all three depending on thier tastes and a particular bow that shoots nice for them.

[dnovo]

I’ve owned and shot both styles of longbows. I’ve been shooting mostly mild R/D
Longbows for a while. While there may be a speed difference it’s usually not enough to concern yourself with. To me it’s all about feel. Which one am I most comfortable with and that aspect may also change over time as you become more immersed in the sport.

[JohnV]

A r/d SHOULD have a speed advantage over a D longbow, all things equal.  They have been designed to be faster.  That said, materials and bowyer expertise may lead to a particular bow being faster.

[Wudstix]

I have D/R longbows that I shoot and they are quick.  Two different makers and style bows, both 60".  I also have an "old school" D-shaped bow that is very smooth and fast.  It is 2" longer than the D/R bows and a handful of pounds heavier, so the comparison is not apples to apples.  Enjoy hunting with any of them.
 

[JamesD]

Lonster,

     I wish I could answer your question concerning long bow styles. I cannot. I do remember like yesterday when I was in your shoes (12 years ago, man time flies). I have only shot R/D long bows on my journey. I have shot light arrows fast and heavy arrows slower. Both setups have worked. Either way, 45# at 29" will work well on lots of different animals. Welcome to the journey! I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us!

[stevem]

Many years ago I got the bug to try a longbow.  Purchased a Martin M14.  Despite having shot recurves for upward of 25 years at that point, I had read about hand shock, but had no idea what it was, until I shot that bow.  Yikes, I could feel the fillings in my teeth getting ready to come loose.  I sold that bow to someone in Alaska,and warned him it had "some kick".  Apparently he was happy with it.  Years later I decide to try again, this time a used Toelke Whip with a high grip.  Love at first sight!  Yes, the R/D offers improved speed.  How much I can't tell you.  What makes the difference for me, is the Toelke is near center-shoot, and the grip is similar to a medium high recurve grip.  These two things are huge, for me.  The Martin M14 had a "broom stick" grip and, best as I can recall, little if any sight window.  In your quest to find a longbow, don't get hung up on speed only.  Look at the grip types and degree of center-shoot.

[Lonster]

SteveM,

I’ve already ordered my bow, a 60” Toelke Whistler.

Lonster

[Al Dean]

What is the definition of efficiency.  To me it is how much energy is transfered from the string to the arrow.  I guess I have no clue to an answer to the question between straight and RD.  Most accurate I ever shot was my HH Big Five, but it did have hand shock.  Smoothest my Toelke Whip, not most accurate.

[stevem]

Lonster- isn't that like looking at your wife's teeth after your married her?!!!!  Lot's of Toelke fans out here- I predict you will enjoy the Whistler.  I have one, and a Whip.  Details please!

[Kirkll]

SteveM,

I’ve already ordered my bow, a 60” Toelke Whistler.

Lonster

You should be very pleased with Dans bow. Great choice to get started with something nice.

There have been a lot of posts here already regarding efficiency in different bow designs, so i'm not going to add to that. But i will say one thing about Performance..... A high Performance bow is measured in the over all way a bow draws, shoots, and feels after the shot. Its not just arrow speed.   You can adjust arrow speed with arrow weight on every bow. But some handle lighter weight shafts with less hand shock than others. I would highly recommend listening to Dan's recommendation on arrow weight for your new bow. Or ask him about it.  I would image he'll tell you to stay between 9-10 gains per pound, or a bit higher even.  Heavier shafts are more forgiving when properly tuned to the bow..... Tuning arrow shafts is a whole different subject.

Once you have been shooting awhile you'll most likely get a chance to shoot other folks bows at 3D shoots and gatherings. That is a lot of fun, and i highly recommend it. You learn a lot about different shooting styles and different bow designs. You can experience first hand what shooting light weight shafts at higher speeds does to your trajectory at longer yardage, and the trade offs that do exist. Having a hot 3D bow shooting fast arrows can be fun, but frustrating too.

If you plan on hunting with your bow, you will find a good balance in arrow weight that gives you a flat trajectory, some forgiveness, and still provide good KE and penetration....This Trad game is a whole new world and is very addictive......  Welcome aboard !   You are going to love this stuff....         Kirk

[Lonster]

SteveM,
I have a Black Hunter ($100 RD longbow from Amazon) I really like the way that it shoots. It’s a good shooting bow but not too much to look at. So I did some research and settled on Toelke bows because of all of the positive responses and nothing negative that I could find.

I called and talked to Dan. He suggested a 60” Whistler and 45# @ 28”, my draw length is 29”+ on a Trad bow.
I’m getting Myrtle on the limbs, letting Dan choose the other wood options, and I’m getting it in a two-piece.
I should have it in 4-5 months.

I just think that since I’m going to be devoted to hunting with a longbow, I’d like to pass down a custom, handmade bow with memories rather than a cheap Amazon bow that nobody will probably want, kind of like a 64 Mustang v. a Gremlin.

Lonster

[Lonster]

Kirkll,
Thanks for the advice. Yes, Dan said that he will shoot the bow and tell me exactly what I need as for as arrow spine, broadhead weight, etc.
Lonster

[katman]

Agree with above, you did good speaking with the bowyer and getting his recommendations, no one knows there model better than the bowyer.

[Tedd]

Lonster, try them all.  RFDF bows generally have low hand shock, light weight and shorter dimensions for easy use in a tight spot.