Question for 3-under shooters...??

[woodchucker]

Gery, Usually split finger, with a single nock point set at 1/2" above the shelf.

In the past, shooting 3under with my old Bear recurves...
Start with a new string, (shoot,stretch,settle) then set a single nock point 5/8" above the shelf.


I have never bare shaft, or paper tuned. 

[GCook]

Just went to three under and it's quiet on my Primal Techs but haven't checked tune yet.  I will bare shaft but for now arrow flight doesn't appear to have any kick.  But split I had a high anchor point and too much ring finger in it so maybe it won't be a lot of difference.

[M60gunner]

I went this noise route three under routine on my Bear TD years ago. I junked the factory D-97 string and the noise went away. As for tiller, I have a custom tillered even, I shoot it split finger. I run my ILF’s the same way and have no issues. I can see adjustments being needed for string walking but I don’t string walk or do “ fixed crawl “.

[woodchucker]

Years ago.... (1970s)
I wore glasses with big "aviator" style lenses. I always anchored my index finger at the corner of my mouth.
I shot that way with a compound, and when I got back into this "traditional" thing around 2000.
I switched to 3under as a way to get my arrow up under my eye...

In 2015 when I got my Bear T/D I set it up for 3under, and it was LOUD!!!!
I dropped my nock point to 1/2" and switched back to split finger.
New glasses, with smaller lenses (and practice!) allowed me to move my anchor up, to my middle finger at the corner of my mouth. I've been shooting that way ever since...

[woodchucker]

Tom,
I've been thinking of putting an old endless loop dacron string on her.....

[Kirkll]

Could be.. but Could be right. Too many factors to give a "book" answer.
Most of my personal nock heights are about 7/8". Thicker your fingers, higher your nocks.. higher your elbow,  higher your nocks and of course other bow factors.
BigJim

So does a cant affect how high ones nock set might be?

In some cases, yes. But it’s your center shot shelf depth, and the height of the shelf above your hand that can make a difference. Shooting an elevated rest bow that is cut past center and tuned with a stiffer arrow closer to center shot, you need to maintain a vertical bow.

Typically a long bow shot close to the knuckle or say shelf height is 3/4” above center, on a bow cut before, or just to center,  you can cant the bow either direction , and even 90 degrees if you want as long as your arrows are tuned correctly and you have decent form….. 

The key is maintaining perfect alignment and bending at the waist.  Not twisting your hand…..Watch some of Terry Green’s  trick shooting videos some time. That guy has amazing form, and can hold alignment doing a back bend.     Kirk

[Orion]

M60.  When you chucked the D-97, what did you replace it with?  I have a lot of D-97.  Satisfied with its performance and durability, but it is noisy, IMO. 

[Petrichor]

I have both three under tillered and standard. I run all of them very similar. All are quiet as a church mouse and I hear no difference when I have test shot them split. The way Dan Toelke explained the tillering to me was that it didn’t really make a difference until you draw 29 inches or more. 

[Kirkll]

That is an interesting angle that I never really gave much thought. And string angle is the operative word here.

  it makes sense because some bow designs have sharper string angles at full draw than others at longer draw lengths. String angle at full draw definitely makes a difference getting off the string clean, but I never related that to the noise it makes being different.       Kirk

[Petrichor]

That is an interesting angle that I never really gave much thought. And string angle is the operative word here.

  it makes sense because some bow designs have sharper string angles at full draw than others at longer draw lengths. String angle at full draw definitely makes a difference getting off the string clean, but I never related that to the noise it makes being different.       Kirk

Dan tillered my bow for three under but also said at 26” draw it wouldn’t matter.

[Kirkll]

That is an interesting angle that I never really gave much thought. And string angle is the operative word here.

  it makes sense because some bow designs have sharper string angles at full draw than others at longer draw lengths. String angle at full draw definitely makes a difference getting off the string clean, but I never related that to the noise it makes being different.       Kirk

Dan tillered my bow for three under but also said at 26” draw it wouldn’t matter.

Dan's a great guy. I met him and his wife at Western States rendezvous a few years ago.  He does very nice work, and is very knowledgeable about archery.     Kirk

[Petrichor]

That is an interesting angle that I never really gave much thought. And string angle is the operative word here.

  it makes sense because some bow designs have sharper string angles at full draw than others at longer draw lengths. String angle at full draw definitely makes a difference getting off the string clean, but I never related that to the noise it makes being different.       Kirk

Dan tillered my bow for three under but also said at 26” draw it wouldn’t matter.

Dan's a great guy. I met him and his wife at Western States rendezvous a few years ago.  He does very nice work, and is very knowledgeable about archery.     Kirk

Agreed.

[woodchucker]

I find the "string angle" thing interesting!!

I have always liked short bows.... I started shooting 3under with my Kodiak Mag and then 56-58" Grizzlys,
untill I bought my 56" Bear T/D in 2015. I have a couple hybrid longbows, that I used to shoot 3under with no issues. They are 62" and 66"... My son Little Bear, still shoots his 64" Bear Montana longbow 3under. We both draw 28"

Maybe the string angle gets more critical with shorter bows...?? 

[Mark R]

I think all bows will have a sweet spot to the way you prefer to shoot and usually you can find that with a little bit of experimenting ,once found I leave the science of it someone else.

[Mark R]

Hey Roy chime in on timing the limb to the way it will be shot.

[Pointed_stick]

I shoot all commercial bows with no custom tillering options. I haven't noticed any issues tuning, ,and setting nock points....I also string walk with a split finger tab so will shoot both 3 under and split on the same bow. 

[katman]

Chuck, you might give this a go. A well tuned arrow/bow is quieter than a poorly tuned one.

https://www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning

[Gun]

"personally I think tillering for 3 under is an old wives tale. If the limbs are balanced properly,  3 under shooting isn’t going to make any difference unless you are string walking…."

I agree pretty much with Kirk and Jim on tillering. I know Jack Kempf personally and remember asking him to tiller a new order bow for me once for three under. He also said it doesn't make much difference.

I switched to three under 20+ years ago because for whatever reason I started pinching the inside of my index finger on the arrow nock to the point it would blister. Even tho it callused it still hurt.

I was surprised that my accuracy improved w three under as well. I never noticed an increase in noise. I wonder tho, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is arrow weight. I shoot a fairly heavy arrow which I think absorbs some of the noise issue. I am also at 3/4" nock set above center with a tie on nock point above and a crimp nock below w a tiny gap. Jim mentions the video showing the nock of arrow sliding down the string. I think that's why I added a nock point below the arrow. I wonder if that slight "slide" causes some issues?

I normally shoot 50-55# bow weight. (Down from my prime at 75# many years ago). Before nerve issues to my right side and also two torn tendons I was using 660 gr arrows. Now since using a mouth tab to draw and only 40# @ 27" I'm at 550 gr arrow weight. Still the same brace height. Also only a 1/2" string contact w the sewn on tab as about 2 1/2" w fingers.

My physio therapist thinks I should easily be shooting lefty by September. I've noticed a vast improvement in strength and range of motion in only 3 weeks after losing the sling. The surgeon says I won't be shooting right handed anymore. Fine as long as I can shoot.

Good discussion!

[Gun]

I should add my equipment. Bear B mag riser w #1 limbs. They are marked at 50# but actually 40# for me @ 27".

[GCook]

Good on you Gun.  Keep the fire burning.