Bare shafting ADs

[snag]

I wanted to add some weight upfront to some AD shafts I have. They are cut to 29.5" with standard inserts and were fletched. I stripped one shaft and removed the insert. I put a 100gr. brass insert in it and went to the target with 125gr., 145gr., and 175gr. tips. I started with 125 and at 15yds it veered right or weak by a foot, almost missed the target. So, having a center cut recurve 55#@28" I decided to cut it down a bit. I had to saw off the nock because it was glued on. I was surprised to see that this shaft has a metal core!!! I don't have any nocks that would fit over the shaft and there isn't enough room instead to put a push on nock in...? Do all AD shafts have a metal core?

[Dale in Pa]

Snag,

 I think what you saw was the remainder of the glue in nock adapter.

 Take a drill bit that's close in diameter, and carefully drill out the rest of the adapter, and then you can either get some AD push in nocks or the glue in adapters and glue on nocks.

 If you cut too much off the rear of the shaft your going to get to the tapered portion and neither of those options will work. Best to cut from the front.

[Danny Rowan]

Yep, you are seeing what is left of the nock adapter. Yep, you should cut/trim from the point end. Which AD's do you have? I use the Trads and with 100 gr brass insert with 225gr point they fly perfect from my recurves(62-65#) 29" to insert.

Danny

[Daddy Bear]

I only have experience w/ the AD Trads out of a longbow. On those, you do not touch the nock end. I use an aluminum adapter that is epoxied into place to convert the shaft to take standard 5/16" nocks. Others use an Easton bushing w/ an Easton push-in nock. Factory is just the bare shaft w/ a push in nock. You may be in a pickle if you've cut through an epoxied aluminum adapter and/or the shaft itself.

On mine, everything is done up front. Mine are cut to 29" w/ the standard insert(26grains), a steel adapter(100grains), and a 160grain glue on head. I epoxy the steel adapter into the glue on head giving me a total broadhead weight of 260grains. Muzzy makes a proper fitting 100grain brass insert to replace the 26grain insert, and you can get steel adapters from around 75grains through 125grains. In addition, they make a 46grain aluminum adapter. Add to this a plethora of glue on heads, you can come up w/ many different weight combinations.

If for hunting, I'm a firm believer in choosing the broadhead for the game you seek and then build the arrow around that, not vice versa. If bareshafting, I'd match the point weight to the hunting head you choose, but I'm not a believer in bareshafting for tuning a hunting arrow when the end goal is shooting a broadhead. When I was tuning my shaft to find the ideal length/weight combo, I used hot melt glue to affix the adapters into the heads, and I used thumbnail width strips cut from plastic sandwich to affix the inserts to the shaft. This allowed me to shoot the stink out of the arrow w/out it falling apart, yet I could easily remove the components to cut the shaft or change the combo. Once I determined the correct combo, I epoxied everything w/ JB Weld. Some like Devcon 2-Ton.

Daddy Bear

[snag]

So what you are saying is I went about it bass ackwards!  I didn't know there was metal nock inserts for these. I will proceed with the others from the front end.

Danny, these are the regular shafts...not the lites or the Trads. I'm hoping I get at least 225gr. up front.

I will give it the proper try again tonight. Thanks guys.

[bayoulongbowman]

its tapered....up front!!!!!

[Basic Instinct]

Snag, If they were the ones I had, they are the Trad  reg not the Lites.

[leatherneck]

Hey fellows, anyone want to get rid of some trad lites? I just posted on the arrow section. Thanks for the info here it helped me out.

[snag]

I'm sending them back to you Dan. Hope they can work for you. I cut one down to 28" w/ the 100gr. insert and it still flew way weak! These shafts can't handle that much weight forward. I only used 125gr tips with them too. The Carbon Express Heritage 250s set up perfect for me...better stick with what works!  The CEs seem so much more substantial too. With the smaller diameter shaft they should have better penetration also. Just not sold on the ADs.

[last arrow]

I would like to ask the AD users how important it is to bareshaft.  I am kind of like snag, no matter how much I cut the shaft down, bareshafting shows the arrow is weak.  However, when I fletch them, they all fly straight (no visible kick) and group well (broadheads and field tips of the same weight).  I have found that changing point weight just changes the point of horizontal impact of the fletched shafts (until you start getting on the extreme edges of weight where groups start to grow). It appears that if the weight of head you want to shoot is not hitting where you aim with fletched shafts, you start change length until it does.  I am new to the AD shafts and kinda think I am imagining things, but is this what some of you have found?

I am shooting a 56lb at 28" (my draw) recurve cut to center and found that I can shoot a 29.25" AD trad with points from 145 to 265 grains with good flight and groups with the 200 grain being right to were I look.  With the 200 grain head it gives me a 580 grain arrow, so I think I am ready to hunt anything in the N and S America.

[fatman]

Blaine, I've had similar results....

I picked up a few Trad Lites from a guy here on the Gang;  they were cut to 29", perfect for my 27" draw length.  These things were already fletched and came with a bag of various point, adapters, etc...plus the pile of stuff I already had...

I have put together various combinations from 545gr to 675gr, point total from 225 to 350.  Everything shoots right where I look, the major difference being the "drop" past 20-25yds.  All of these combos yield 20%+ in FOC.  I have shot these combos through "cut-past-center" bows from 42# to 58#, and a center-shot BBO(57#), and they fly and group great through everything....

I really don't feel the need to bareshaft.  And I think I've found my "ammo" that will work for everything. I do attribute some of the good flight to the EFOC thing...I've become a real believer that forward weighting helps me get good flight...        

as has been said before, "your mileage may vary....."

Kevin  

[Daddy Bear]

Blaine, same results for me...

I find that AD Trads appear to make for excellent hunting arrows w/ extreme %FOC that are easily tuned w/ a broad range of forgiveness. For building a hunting arrow w/ the end use being big feathers and a broadhead, I do not believe it is possible for anyone to determine proper tune by bareshafting w/ field points. Their is no way anyone can guestimate the effect the feathers and broadhead will have on flight over and above your perfectly bareshafted field point.

I fletch them up and shoot the broadhead I use to hunt. I then shoot across the course from near point blank out to around 40yards to determine my POI in relation to my POA. I make corrections off of this. It is very difficult to find bad flight out of the AD Trads.

Once you are shooting straight down range w/ good flight, just about every point combo that is in the same weight range as the broadhead will also shoot straight down range w/ good flight. Inside 20yards, I can go an extreme range above and below this point weight and still shoot near center down range with good flight. Very forgiving.

Daddy Bear

[last arrow]

So I am getting results that I should expect.  I have always tried for a head weight of about 250 grains - should I cut another .25 off the arrow and try and get that into the center of head weignts that I can shoot (most forgiving?).  That gets the arrow up to about 625.  Any advice.