Are we "over thinking" it....??

[GCook]

Never had that experience with a file.  Now give me a good Arkansas stone and I'm gtg.

[Sam McMichael]

Yes, most of us tend to overthink, and many don't. I don't. While many are perfectionists to the point of no output, most of us could stand being a bit more detail oriented. I am one who believes that if I can keep my shots in the heart/lung area at my hunting range things are peachy. I do practice, but, quite frankly, I no longer think I am physically able to become a truly good archer.

As for Fred Bear "Hunting out of the box", it may have been a publicity stunt. Believe me, if I owned Fred Bear Archery, I would have arrows made and tested to my specs, then packaged in the box. It is a subtle but effective ploy to highlight the quality of my product.

How we prepare for archery and hunting is one way I feel most people tend to over think. For example, some guys worry over a 5 grain variance in weight being a major issue. They sometimes weigh individual feathers to get them to the same weight. Generally, people don't have clean enough form that minute weight variations make a measurable difference. But, you can't blame them for trying. It is always better to be over prepared than under prepared. Me, I would be happy with a clean release. I agree with McDave and some of the others regarding the necessity of a good release.

As my Tae Kwon Do master used to remind us at every class we need to practice, practice, practice!

[gregg dudley]

It's well documented that Howard Hill would shoot a new batch of arrows at a 60 yard target and discard those that missed. That was his tuning method.

I was at a shoot one day and this dude walked up to the "lost arrow" bin grabbed a fistful of arrows and went out and shot them on a practice target a few times.  He discarded the ones that didn't fly well and kept three arrows that by outward appearance were mismatched according to length, spine, diameter, fletching, etc. He turned out to be a friend of mine's buddy and I ended up shooting a round with them on the fun range.  Shooting those arrows, with what I learned was a borrowed bow, he proceeded to spank the targets one after another.  But... he was a shooter.  He had consistent form and release.

Yes, we overthink things.  That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do everything possible to insure the effectiveness of our equipment and that includes practice and some level of tuning. 

[woodchucker]

I believe it is just human nature, to try and "build a better mouse trap"
This has been the success of human evolution for centuries...

Archery has evolved as well, up to and including the compound bow.
In the past few decades, there has been a gaining movement backwards... Back to our roots.

This is a good thing!! As we should always remember where we came from...
Now, I am FAR from what folks would call an "instructor"... But, I have taught many people how to shoot.
I find a bow of mine they can comfortably draw and hold. I help them find a comfortable and consistent anchor point. I encourage most to start shooting 3under for two reasons, 1 it gets the arrow up under their eye, 2 it avoids them pinching the nock and the arrow coming off the shelf. 

Then we shoot... A simple paper plate, and short (5-10yds) range.
This is where I explain and work on their release.  I explain that you want to relax your string hand, and allow the string to just slip from you fingers. My instructions are simple....
Look at the plate... Draw back to your anchor point.... Look at the plate.... Relax your string hand and let the string slip from your fingers. Suprisingly, "follow through" seems to come naturally when first getting started!!
I think they are so focused on the plate, they forget to do anything else??
After an hour or so of slow, one arrow at a time practice, most usually seem to have it down.
Then, I send them home with the bow, and a few arrows.....

The next time, I put a small "dot" on the paper plate. Same as before only...
Look at the dot... Draw back to your anchor point... Look at the dot... Relax your string hand and let it slip.....
Again, after about an hour, most have all of their arrows in the paper plate.
Practice, Practice, Practice.... FIRST, learn HOW to shoot.
Then you can learn how to be a better shooter... 

[TSP]

I like your instruction approach Woodchucker but have just one suggested improvement.  Put that 'dot' on the very middle of the plate the first time you show them the plate.  The little dot may well be THE most important tool of all for learning to develop 'good instinctive'.  Might as well start them off on the right foot.   

[mgf]

Has anybody here said exactly what it means to "overthink"? Are we saying that tuning is overthinking?

I shoot mostly aluminum arrows and I "bare shaft tune". In fact I practice shooting with bare shafts. I do so because a poorly executed shot can send a bare shaft off course just as it can a broadhead tipped arrow. When my bare shafts land with my fletched field tipped arrows my shooting is OK. By the same token a badly mismatched arrow can hit the target just fine until you hang a broadhead on it and then all bets are off.

Once in one of these threads I took a Root 15# bow and shot some 2117 arrows at 12 or 15 yards and posted the pictures. Short range, fletched and sporting field points just about anything will work.

For me, the bare shafting is a way to do less shooting with broadheads and still get good broadhead results. It's getting close to the time of year where I'll start shooting broadheads instead of bare shafts just to make sure.

I don't worry much about a couple of grains or thousandths of an inch one way or the other.

[Sam McMichael]

mgf, personally I often refer to overthinking as "mountain climbing over the mole hill". We often take a minor issue and blow it out of proportion when concentrating on another aspect of the game would be far more beneficial. Granted, it is sometimes hard to prioritize appropriately. However, what one man feels is overthinking may be crucial to another, so it really is up to the individual to make the determination. Unfortunately, though, some use it as a polite means of telling somebody that they don't know what they are talking about.

[woodchucker]

Tony,
The reason I don't introduce the dot first, is that I want them to focus on their anchor, and release.
I want them to learn to hit, what they are looking at... (The plate)

As soon as you introduce the dot, they start trying to aim, and everything goes out the window
All things in time....

[TSP]

Chuck, I get the anchor and release thing but I also believe that when it comes to 'overthinking' their instinctive shooting most people significantly overthink (or at least overemphasize) their form components too early in the process, at the expense of adopting a simplified sight picture. 

As critical as tuned repeatable form is, in my experience (a long time) it best comes AFTER learning the hows of acquiring and focusing on the spot.  IMO all else is secondary...complete focus on where you want the arrow to go is the single most important factor in effective instinctive shooting.  And without a spot on that plate the learning process becomes a whole lot harder to do, lol. 

I suppose that's why form is never the same for everyone.  Form is essentially just an individual's learned body response to making the #1 objective (target acquisition) easier to engrain.  We shouldn't make our body overthink what it wants to do naturally, no more than we should try to aim our forks or sight down our arms on a basketball court.     

[mgf]

Well see I guess that's why it's hard for one person to decide whether or not somebody else is over thinking or "miss thinking" because ideas on how to shoot vary an awful lot.

What's being talked about here doesn't match anything the big names in the business are teaching.

[McDave]

The analogy I would like to make between form and focusing on the spot is like the difference between a building and a business.  The foundation and structure of the building (or perhaps a website in today's virtual world) is analogous to form, while what goes on inside that building once it is built is analogous to focusing on the spot and releasing the arrow. I don't think it's useful to emphasize the importance of one of these aspects over the other.

By teaching a person good form, I can get him to where he can hit within a 10” circle at 20 yards 19 out of 20 times, without worrying overly much about aiming or focusing on the spot.  This might not sound like much, but it is better than the majority of the people I shoot with can do consistently.  They may shoot better than that a lot of the time, but they are also looking for arrows behind the target on a regular basis.  However, while learning good form will give you the consistency you want, it won't give you the accuracy you want.

Form, combined with focusing on the spot and releasing the arrow correctly, whether instinctively or using a reference aiming system, is what allows a shooter to reach his true potential, which are consistent 6” groups at 20 yards for most people and 3” or smaller groups at 20 yards for some.  Solely focusing on the spot and releasing correctly might give you the accuracy you want, but it won't give you the consistency you want.

[TSP]

'Overthinking it' often includes the tendency to make finding one's shooting potential the be-all/end-all of learning to shoot.  Beginners who might not know one end of a bow from the other let alone aspire to drill the same hole repeatedly arrow after arrow will benefit from keeping their learning curve as simple as possible.  One starts with developing focus on the mark and builds in steps from there, not the other way around.  The rest of it (a myriad of general form components that can change with the teaching source) can be made to seem like long do's and don't checklists are necessary... which isn't true and is  exactly what a beginner does NOT need in their first days of bow and arrow education. 

Complicated form mechanics (and for beginners complicated can be almost any detail-based instruction) can be an effective recipe for bad results, or worse yet for becoming bored or frustrated with basic simple/instinctive archery concepts.  In some venues even shooting an arrow is reserved for much later, well after the basics are learned/engrained.  Better to take things slow, make it fun and introduce a simple foundation (knowledge before mechanics) before coaching theoretically engineered form principles that only might work for that particular individual.  We don't need to start target panic mania on the very first day now do we?  That can be done later if desired.

Of course, I'm speaking to simple instinctive-type 'normal dude' archery here, not career-oriented competitive target archery.  If the latter is what one truly seeks then never mind keeping it simple, the competitive thing is a whole different ball game and one best researched and practiced under the tutelage of a career experienced expert instructor trained in the ways of precision methods and use of high-end equipment.  But I'm not sure that's a particularly good fit for most of us.  Especially for those not wanting to overthink it. 

[Terry Green]

Form is the fundamentals.  Everyone should strive to have the correct form(proper alignment) as it negates a myriad of accuracy issues. And, it's not complicated to achieve. The closer one gets to a literal shooting machine the more consistently accurate one becomes.

I want to be as accurate as I can possibly be no mater if paper or fur.  Not sure why anyone would settle for less.

Paralysis by analysis definitely exists,  and I see more of that in people worrying about FOC than working on their shooting ability.

[the rifleman]

McDave and Terry X2.  It's very easy for a new shooter to develop poor form habits that may be difficult to unlearn later on or worse, lead to a needless injury.  As McDave pointed out, proper mechanics learned early on will get the new archer to a level of accuracy in and of itself and those mechanics will serve that person well regardless of their chosen shooting style down the road.  I find that people are much more likely to return for more if they experience a level of success instead of frustration--- form basics go a long way toward this end.

[TSP]

I find that people are much more likely to have fun with archery if they aren't taught to approach it as if they are heading to the Olympics next month.  Keeping it simple goes well with simple sticks and strings.

[Terry Green]

TSP, I don't teach people about the Olympics.  Your comment sounds like you are grasping at straws to make your point. Everyone I have help stated more to the experience as "kid in a candy store" than "when are the Olympics?"

[Mark R]

There is no real shortcuts in being proficient shooting the bow, start with basic form (alignment) anchor and go from there, practice that a bit drawing the bow and letting down without an arrow before attempting to loose an arrow it helps getting comfortable with the bow and then after shoot some arrows at close range instead of looking for lost arrows. I see it all the time at my public forest preserve range, new people show up with bows strung backwards and all sorts of misconceptions on shooting the bow, but after a few basic lessons and a few well shot arrows and I mean arrows that just feel good coming off the bow they start to have fun and the ones who want to keep shooting are the ones who usually keep at it. As far as tuning, a basic well matched set of arrows is all you need and that obviously means different things to different people, but even a matched set of arrows is not gonna help if you are uncomfortable and have no idea how to shoot them. JMHO

[mgf]

I wish somebody would have shown me what proper alignment was and how to get there when I first started.

It would have saved me years of struggle and frustration. It's not that hard but you don't know what you don't know when you start.

[GCook]

People mention fun.  And I guess for new shooters, like my grandkids, just dropping the string is fun.  For a while.  Soon they want to hit the target like Pop.  Soon they want their arrows to stick in the 3D animal just like Pop.  They soon want to do more than just drop a string. 
Teaching them better form helps them hit what they are shooting at.  Which is inherently more fun.  The more fun, the more they are willing to work, stay at it.
I don't think you can separate those things.  Even the word fundamentals starts with the word fun.

[woodchucker]

Well said, Gary!!!

We also need to remember.... It's a learning process!! Baby steps... Practice, Practice, Practice!!

In our world today, many are looking for instant gratification.
They expect to learn this, and get "good" overnight. Such is not the case here....

Every year, I see posts from new members reluctant to hang up their compounds, and commit to traditional equipment. Or, they end up going back to them. I was lucky enough to have started with traditional bows.
My Grandpa made them for me from split saplings when I was 3-4 years old.
I did shoot compounds for about 4-5 years, in the late 80's. After buying a new bow every year, I gave it up.
Just couldn't buy into the "latest & greatest" mentality....

I hadn't bow hunted for years, and I met a friend who was hell bent on getting me back into bow hunting.
I told him, "Bob, if I ever go back to bow hunting, it'll be with an old recurve and wood arrows..."
That was about 20 years ago. Here I am today!!