3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: Are we "over thinking" it....??  (Read 11425 times)

Offline Terry Lightle

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2785
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2022, 07:19:08 AM »
Yep,I call it brain sexing.
Compton Traditional Bowhunters Life Member

Offline Appalachian Hillbilly

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 661
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2022, 01:26:09 PM »
Trad has become my escape mechanism.  That and building my own bows! I started in the mid seventies with a wooden Ben Pearson longbow and what ever arrows I could afford at Sky City. Never killed anything  but a lot of time! Then a Bear compound in my teens. Left home and never picked up a bow until 2 years ago for my grandson's  birthday.  2 years has snowballed and the tinkered in me lays awake wondering what if.....what if I do it this way, or tweak this or change that.

Great mental break from my daily life and job. Every now and then I go to my home place and just launch arrows in the field to see how far they will go! That is still fun to this day!

Offline woodchucker

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2022, 04:41:20 PM »
As I have stated above earlier, I think it's just human nature, to try and build a better mouse trap...

But, as Ken just stated, It's FUN to just fling arrows!!!
I've been having the time of my life, up here at the new house.
I have a block target out in the yard... a 7 acre yard!!! I shoot about 20-25yds, for practice.
Then, I move around, out to 40-50yds to see if I can hit the block. Sometimes I just launch arrows out into the field, just to see if I can hit something?? At 62 and retired... The extra walking is good for me!!
I can help but think, all this shooting will help come Deer Season!!! :pray:
I only shoot WOOD arrows... My kid makes them, fast as I can break them!

There is a fine line between Hunting, & Sitting there looking Stupid...

May The Great Spirit Guide Your Arrows..... Happy Hunting!!!

Offline TSP

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1005
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2022, 04:16:22 PM »
Before dismissing the idea that target-style form and strong attention to secondary form-based regimens must be the best answer to teaching instinctive shooting (without 'overthinking'), take a look at how this fellow's approach and description demonstrates the pointing vs. aiming approach to keeping things simple.     

Quite an impressive explanation and demonstration IMO, and with hardly a mention of any intricate form philosophies as a prerequisite for teaching or learning success.  In point of fact, taking the latter approach can actually be counterproductive to learning how to shoot under hunting or close-range unpredictable shot situations...because it overthinks the 'how' parts of shooting.  Note he didn't say that form components aren't part of the learning process.  He's simply saying, and showing with actual shooting results, that they are secondary.   

In review... 
1.)  Pictures (or in this case videos) can be worth a thousand words; 
2.)  When we think we have the 'how' part all figured out, we probably overthought it;
3.)  Keeping it simple but successful doesn't require copying target form (it's a choice, not a law); and
4.)  In our traditional archery practice there's value in simplicity and keeping an open mind.

P.S.  The video author's comment on the importance of starting beginners out with a SPECIFIC POINT OF FOCUS (not just an empty pie plate and not with form requirements) was of special interest for me, as it establishes (IMO) the 1st and most important to-do of instinctive/intuitive shooting.  He clearly gets that aspect.  Maybe after seeing his demo others will as well.     



 

Online mgf

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 532
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2022, 07:16:55 AM »
TSP, I don't know if we watched the same video. I heard him talk quite a bit in a couple different sections of the video about  using the right muscle, alignment and consistency...my paraphrasing. He also talked about practicing that "form" with a lighter bow or device (they showed students using bands). I didn't see or hear anything in that video that suggests that a student shouldn't be taught basic form.

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28715
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2022, 07:21:52 AM »
You are making my point to a "T" a magic T tsp.... and form is FORM. There is no such thing as "target form" as everything we shoot is a target.
 There are both shooting styles and aiming styles but *form* is constant.

Let's watch my oldest doing the Indian Sneak shot at 8 years old.... the Magic T at a very young age..... this was posted here in 2005.... Title of 'Perfecting the Indian Sneak Shot'....

This is my 8 year old....and she's tuff as nails at times let me tell ya when she gets her mind out of the way.

She hesitates till she sees that the arrow did go in between the shoulder bone and upper leg bone, then she confirms the shot....

 Doe Indian Sneak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrSMeIRgsk&ab_channel=TradGang

Hard to see in the video....but she laid it right over the elbow...just barely,...just perfect.....   

Boar Indian Sneak   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiOCK7mpdG0&ab_channel=TradGang

Check out her form.....bow arm, and follow through.  What's amaizing is that before today, she hasn't shot since this spring.....   

Rising Boar Sneak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CK-V8gUhEQ&ab_channel=TradGang

 Form Isolation....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtgEKwRDc3c&ab_channel=TradGang
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28715
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2022, 07:25:55 AM »
Looks like these videos are in a format too old to play... got Rob on it!
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline Skates 2

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 641
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2022, 12:17:34 PM »
I remember those slightly and how Rob can resurrect them!!!

Offline Skates 2

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 641
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2022, 12:24:32 PM »
Dang!!!! The Bowhush CEO is par excellence!!!

Offline Bamboozle

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2022, 03:48:42 PM »
Looks like Rob fixed them.  How are them litte gals anyway? Bout grown I supose?
Get bamboo.

Offline Russell Southerland

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 672
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2022, 04:24:58 PM »
You are making my point to a "T" a magic T tsp.... and form is FORM. There is no such thing as "target form" as everything we shoot is a target.
 There are both shooting styles and aiming styles but *form* is constant.

Let's watch my oldest doing the Indian Sneak shot at 8 years old.... the Magic T at a very young age..... this was posted here in 2005.... Title of 'Perfecting the Indian Sneak Shot'....

This is my 8 year old....and she's tuff as nails at times let me tell ya when she gets her mind out of the way.

She hesitates till she sees that the arrow did go in between the shoulder bone and upper leg bone, then she confirms the shot....

 Doe Indian Sneak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrSMeIRgsk&ab_channel=TradGang

Hard to see in the video....but she laid it right over the elbow...just barely,...just perfect.....   

Boar Indian Sneak   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiOCK7mpdG0&ab_channel=TradGang

Check out her form.....bow arm, and follow through.  What's amaizing is that before today, she hasn't shot since this spring.....   

Rising Boar Sneak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CK-V8gUhEQ&ab_channel=TradGang

 Form Isolation....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtgEKwRDc3c&ab_channel=TradGang

Nothing else to say. Oh, except yeah,  where'sthe littleblonde??? :campfire:

Offline longbowman

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 957
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2022, 09:51:29 AM »
I have been trad shooting since before it was called that.  To this day I buy my wooden shafts, fletch them with 3, yellow, 5" feathers and go shoot them.  All this GPI, FOC stuff just makes no sense to me at all.  I've shot through bull elk, bear, mule deer and bunches of whitetails.  Still use Bear Razorheads because the animals die when I shoot them.  Yes, times change but the real things in life don't but what would people sell if everyone was satisfied with just doing it and enjoying it?

Offline Sam McMichael

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6873
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2022, 11:43:21 AM »
What is form?  Whenever we set up a shot in a standardized sequence we are employing "form". Now, this may be a very good or a very poor form. Every archer can set up a shot any way he/she pleases, but it is widely viewed that certain steps tend to constitute "good form". When I say "good form", I mean following shot set up that helps to produce consistently good performance. Most of the best shots I have seen tend to follow similar form. Reaching anchor, smooth release, employing back tension, forming a proper "T", etc. are not overthinking anything in my opinion. Others refer to muscle memory when discussing form, which is simply doing the same thing the same way until it becomes an automatic event. A good thing in my opinion. We learn form in a very stylized manner but learn to adapt when a hunting situation prevents the use of "perfect" form. Eventually, we develop a shot process that works for us. Granted, it may not work for the next guy. Developing good form is not overthinking!

Perhaps we do overthink a lot of things in gear selection and other aspects of the archery/bowhunting game. As silly as we may think some of the picky things people do, we need to remember that they can do things the way they choose. Just let their comment pass as what they actually are - their opinion. We don't have to agree with them to accept them as fellow sportsmen and friends.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 12:08:44 PM by Sam McMichael »
Sam

Online mgf

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 532
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2022, 03:24:09 PM »
GPI (weight per inch) and FOC seem straight forward enough to me. Mechanics are what they are and some shapes/forms are simply stronger than others. That's true whether we're talking about frame members of a building or body positions.

"Form" in archery is nothing more than trying to create a rigid platform for the bow that's is more easily repeated from shot to shot.



Online McDave

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6086
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2022, 03:50:49 PM »

"Form" in archery is nothing more than trying to create a rigid platform for the bow that's is more easily repeated from shot to shot.

I would add that a “rigid platform” is the static part of form; execution of the shot is the dynamic part of form.  Both equally important.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Technology....the knack of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28715
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2022, 03:58:11 PM »
Good stuff Dave.... form is from the waist up. 

What's going on below the waste is as stated by McDave, the 'platform' for the shot. Your platform can be set in numerous positions, the 'Magic T' lets you venture out and 'manufacture' shots in basically endless positions for use in the field other than your 'back yard shot'.

The Magic T is all above the waste and is your real forum.  The only thing the platform is for is for stability of form.
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Online mgf

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 532
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2022, 07:44:37 PM »

"Form" in archery is nothing more than trying to create a rigid platform for the bow that's is more easily repeated from shot to shot.

I would add that a “rigid platform” is the static part of form; execution of the shot is the dynamic part of form.  Both equally important.

I agree but we must really be over-thinking now. Lol

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28715
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2022, 07:14:56 AM »
Mgf, no, not complicated at all, and 'description' is not is not over thinking at all.  It's describing some thing that *is*, not over complicating a simple fact.  :campfire:
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Offline woodchucker

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2022, 09:06:20 AM »
Terry, Looked for your "form clock"... Can't seem to find it?? :dunno:
I only shoot WOOD arrows... My kid makes them, fast as I can break them!

There is a fine line between Hunting, & Sitting there looking Stupid...

May The Great Spirit Guide Your Arrows..... Happy Hunting!!!

Offline Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 28715
Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2022, 09:09:58 AM »
Very top thread on the Shooters Form Forum ...

Here's a link.....

https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=109531.0

Wow, just realized it has 47,474 Views.
Tradbowhunting Video Store - https://digitalstore.tradgang.com/

Tradgang Bowhunting Merchandise - https://tradgang.creator-spring.com/?

Tradgang DVD - https://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

'An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to conclusion'

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©