Are we "over thinking" it....??

[McDave]

The author of the video that TSP posted has evidently honed his form to the point that he can concentrate all of his attention on the most important aspect of the shot to him, which being an instinctive shooter, is the spot he wants to hit.  This is something that we all aspire to do: master the mechanics of the shot to the point that we can forget about them and focus on the one thing that is most important to us.  In the case of Joel Turner, who is a gap shooter, the most important aspect of the shot is the tiny movement that activates the trigger. For someone else, it may be expansion to conclusion.  All can be as successful as the author of TSP's video, with different methods of getting there.

For a person who wants to simplify the shot, he still manages in the course of the video to discuss about a dozen things that can go wrong with it, and I have no doubt that he could come up with a dozen more if he thought about it.  These are probably all things that he has done himself, and overcome in the course of becoming an expert.

I would imagine if he were teaching someone and that person wanted to know why his arrows are going all over the place, he would not say “just focus on the spot and it will all come together in time.”  He obviously knows what he is doing, and he would say “you need to have a consistent anchor,” “keep your head still,” or whatever else he sees is going on.  And I’m sure he would follow it up with “Once you practice these things long enough, you should be able to do them without thinking about it.”

That's all that good form is, really, no matter who is teaching it.

[Alexander Traditional]

I've watched some of his videos,but this was a good one for sure. He hits on things and puts them into words better than I can. He's right about the two things it can be most of the time. I pluck or move my bow. I think most of the time it's a pluck and that can't help but move your bow arm. Another thing he brought up that I have a big problem with is letting go of the string. I'm taller than my dad and plenty strong,but don't have really strong hands and wrist. He has much stronger hands than I do and can pick a bow up and do pretty well never having shot,and I think it's something to do with the fact that he's that strong in that area.

I've starting working out more and it's helping. It's the only thing I can think of to help this sort of thing.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

Re: Are we "over thinking" it....??
Depends on how your wire and how easy your swayed by a conversion. I been bare shaft tuning for over 30 years with both trad bow and compounds I am a thinker so I like to change things up but I also no when to quit and go back to what works. I see so much BS about how folks should and should not shoot and if you don't shoot their way you have TP or if your bow is not made with a CNC than it's the bowsyer fault. There are so many variables and so many rabbit holes to go down that sometimes we for get just to have fun shooting our bows. I do more stump shooting these days than target or 3Ds. I have lean and continue to learn a lot from a lot of folk here on Trad Gang.

[mgf]

Here's an experienced fellow that is a successful instinctive hunter, a very good shot, and who explains and demonstrates very effectively the importance of not 'overthinking' the shot. 

First and foremost, above all else, establish and practice one's focus on the spot.  Without the need to think about how you do it. 

Second, don't allow the intricacies of adopting complicated form be your downfall.  No matter how well you 'think' you have your long list of form components figured out during practice it won't translate well to the field, where scripting of a mental form checklist makes little sense and is largely impractical for shooting under pressures of the moment.

To put it simply, keep it simple.  It'll save you a truckload of headaches in the woods. 

 

Just a steady bow arm and a good release. Is that all?  Even Jason couldn't let it go at that and had to elaborate on it for about 15 minutes...after decades of working out the bugs.

I agree though...if you have a steady bow arm and a good release you don't need to worry about anything but "the spot". If  you don't have that steady bow arm and good release your path to being able to hit "the spot" with any regularity may be a little more complicated. John Shultz  recommended practicing form in front of a blank bale...without a spot to concentrate on.

[TSP]

John Shultz recommended practicing without a 'spot' but when he said that he was referring to building form.  Before practicing his shot (i.e., before applying his form) he said that one should 'burn a hole' in the spot in order to hit it.  Hill said the same thing.  Kinda' makes sense, seeing as they were lifelong practitioners of an approach that was the poster child for keeping it simple while also being effective.  So basically you first concentrate on the spot, then apply form, then execute the shot.  In that order. 

I think Jason's point is that if you avoid the pitfalls of adopting a complicated form set and keep it simple from the get-go you will probably have more success, fewer disappointments and will almost certainly enjoy the process much more than if you fight your way through it with applied trigonometry and mental checklists.  He has found that not overthinking it is the best way.  Hard to argue with that, IMO.     

[TSP]

Actor Brendan Fraser, a beginning archer and excellent actor, gets it.  Keep it simple, enjoy the experience and don't get into a panty twist re exact form or 'aiming'.  Maybe a few of you Louisiana boys helped him out along his path.  BTW, check him out in the movie 9The Whale'.  Awesome performance.

If you're out there Brendan...  

[mgf]

John Shultz recommended practicing without a 'spot' but when he said that he was referring to building form.  Before practicing his shot (i.e., before applying his form) he said that one should 'burn a hole' in the spot in order to hit it.  Hill said the same thing.  Kinda' makes sense, seeing as they were lifelong practitioners of an approach that was the poster child for keeping it simple while also being effective.  So basically you first concentrate on the spot, then apply form, then execute the shot.  In that order.

Point being that the "form" is a requirement" and, for many of us, it doesn't happen by accident.

I think Jason's point is that if you avoid the pitfalls of adopting a complicated form set and keep it simple from the get-go you will probably have more success, fewer disappointments and will almost certainly enjoy the process much more than if you fight your way through it with applied trigonometry and mental checklists.  He has found that not overthinking it is the best way.  Hard to argue with that, IMO.   

I'd caution against taking Jason's struggles with his own shooting issues as some sort of lesson in the best way to shoot. He repeatedly talks about the need for a steady bow arm and a good release. We could make a great case that both start with and stem from good alignment. It's tough to argue against physics. If alignment is good the bow arm doesn't have any reason to move. If alignment is poor, you aren't going to stop it from moving. Watch his release in his latest shooting video.

[acedoc]

There is a chapter by Howard Hill where he refers to a fellow archer who despite trying departed the mortal realm still a bit off in his execution!

I have started to believe in the process with the shot hitting the target as a consequence of perfect form. Self analysis is a must for improvement and I am not decrying anyone’s “process”.
Have fun and keep plugging!

[Terry Green]

You either have proper form and alignment  or not, .... same as a woman is either pregnant or not.  It's best to get the propers on the bale and not in the field.

If you have proper alignment then all you do is focus on the spot.  Sometimes I don't even remember drawing the bow, or if the animal is walking or not. (as in the other thread started).  I also start aiming way before I draw the bow. 

As with any other athletic maneuver, its best to have the basics down for best performance.

[Overspined]

Love wood, hate carbon. Out of a LB anyway. If you are super worried about making crappy shots don’t shoot Trad. You most certainly will if you’re actually shooting at game. Keep it close, do your best. Tough love. But anyone shooting a bow misses, kills, and wounds. I don’t care what kind of bow. If you can’t stand that thought maybe bow hunting isn’t for you. I watch the “pros” do all the same.  All you can do is control the very best you can.

[Terry Green]

Overspined, that goes for gunpowder as well. 

And if ya don't want to have a wreck, don't drive. I sure hope to be the best driver I can so I won't wreck.

[TSP]

This has been a good thread, thanks to the OP for posting his initial question and to the mods for working with the topic fairly.  But I guess we've final overthunk whether we're overthinking.  The definative answer (after 6 pages, lol) is probably.

Don't overthink but at the same time don't forget about what's MOST important along the way.  Peace to all.   

[woodchucker]

Wow!!! Woodchucker's Wondering sure went far!!!

Many thanks to all!!!! 

[Smguinnip]

Maybe I’m one of the weird ones, but I kinda enjoy overthinking every aspect of all of this trad stuff, from bare shaft tuning, broadhead sharpening, string building, and now, bow building and everything that goes into all of this. I guess that’s what keeps the fire burning. “Have fun with it and don’t let it become work”

[Stringwacker]

Maybe I’m one of the weird ones, but I kinda enjoy overthinking every aspect of all of this trad stuff, from bare shaft tuning, broadhead sharpening, string building, and now, bow building and everything that goes into all of this. I guess that’s what keeps the fire burning. “Have fun with it and don’t let it become work”

I think that addresses the 'overthinking' issue well. The question becomes "overthinking to whom?" I ENJOY being an overthinker. Some folks approach a traditional journey with the precision of thought that mirrors that of a butchers meat clever; while others of us enjoy the greater precision approach of a surgeon's scalpel. Both instruments cut meat. To each his own. Whatever makes you happy.

[Kirkll]

Grip it... and rip it... and get er done...

[Terry Green]

I'm a gun slinger with a hatchet scalpeI, I don't over think, I kill shitt. Others play make believe..

[Pine]

Well said Terry.
I usually stay off these kinds of threads, but I always say, if you don't shoot with your head, you wont have target panic.

[Roger Norris]

A short answer to the original question.....BOTH

I think we do over think things a bit, at least I do. One of my other hobbies is firearms, and I get obsessed with a rifle/scope/ammo combination. It carries over to archery for sure.

I do think it is wise to take advantage of all the precision we have available to us, and to make sure our bow/arrow combinations are capable of as close to perfection as we can. A notion...again carried over from rifles....if we can create something that holds a 1/2 inch group when a 4 inch group is all we need, then that slop belongs to us, not the weapon. WE get to take advantage of the room for error.

That said, I think we should chill on the weights and measures a bit and focus on form and practice.

[Terry Green]

A short answer ....

That said, I think we should chill on the weights and measures a bit and focus on form and practice.

HELLO!!!!!