Glassed ELB

[Mad Max]

Here is that green glass Shredd laid up years ago.  it's .060 -.065 and seriously heavy in weight. If this is what he was using building bows it's no wonder he was struggling to get 190 FPS out of his testing. I have no use for it myself and would gladly send it to you Buggs.... btw... its 1.5" X 38.5"

Making glass was just something he wanted to do

He’s been trying to give it away to anyone

[Buggs]

Thanks for the offer Kirk, but I'll pass. Heavy hand laid glass like that has a bad fiber to resin ratio. Slow moving mass. I was mostly curious about the color. You could always do a burn test with it and find the true ratio

I'll give him credit for all the time and effort that it must have took, making that laminate.

[Kirkll]

Thanks for the offer Kirk, but I'll pass. Heavy hand laid glass like that has a bad fiber to resin ratio. Slow moving mass. I was mostly curious about the color. You could always do a burn test with it and find the true ratio

I'll give him credit for all the time and effort that it must have took, making that laminate.

I could use it on a kids bow for it’s indestructible quality at low draw weight. I’ve had it for years and every time I consider using it, I talk myself out of it.   

Kirk

[Buggs]

I went ahead and made a gizmo after seeing Pat B. using one. What a great little tool!
Simple, effective, ingenuity

It's definitely designed for a flat belly bow, it was hard to keep it on the ridge of this round belly ELB.
I came up with a self centering mod.

If I were going to make more of these style bows, I would figure out something more permanent.
The other mod I would make to the gizmo is a different marking device. Don't like that the distance the pencil protrudes out the bottom changes as the lead wears away. A non-permanent roller ball pen would work, just have to figure out how to adjust it.

[Buggs]

Been picking away at it.

Thats as far as I'm drawing it, 19"  Scares me every time I do it   I'm not done tillering, but thats as far I'm pulling on it. So it weighs in at 12.5kg@19"  I checked another straight limbed bow for comparison,  50#@28" equaled 14kg@19"
Check out my swanky shop floor scale. It's carpeted and it weighs in kilos and Stones!

[Pat B]

With many bows it's about 3# per inch of pull so you can estimate draw weight out to full draw length.   
 The bow looks a bit stiff at the inner 1/3 of both limbs. Traditional ELBs have a stiff handle area, out a couple of inches then start bending. The European war bows were tillered to the arc of a circle but at 100#+ they needed the whole bow to share the strain.

[Kirkll]

With many bows it's about 3# per inch of pull so you can estimate draw weight out to full draw length.   
 The bow looks a bit stiff at the inner 1/3 of both limbs. Traditional ELBs have a stiff handle area, out a couple of inches then start bending. The European war bows were tillered to the arc of a circle but at 100#+ they needed the whole bow to share the strain.

That’s really interesting Pat. Could you tell me what the advantages are for having the limb start bending out a couple inches from the handle rather than the outer portion?

The reason I ask is …..that I spent a lot of time designing different take down limbs and pushing the working portion out further was always beneficial.

I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts on this.     Kirk

[Buggs]

Thanks for the feedback Pat. I agree, its stiffener the handle. Going to be working on that.
One thing I do have to consider is that the glass sleeve density will get progressively more pronounced as it is pulled tight down toward the tips. Which makes me think I should tiller with a weaker tip than normal

Kirk, Pat will have a better answer than I, but I believe without glass protecting the back and belly, a bow need to be tillered to take advantage of the maximum amount of working limb to distribute the strain. Look at Bue's flight bow as an example.

[Pat B]

Kirk, the traditional ELBs were sporting/target bows back in the Victorian times, 1800s. Most were relatively light in draw weight because both women and men participated. I think the stiff handle area made the bows more forgiving and smoother shooting for the general public participating. In those days they were shooting what was known as a York round;a men's round in archery consisting of 72 arrows fired at 100 yards, 48 at 80 yards, and 24 at 60 yards. The women's round weren't as many shots and not as long a distance.
 

[mmattockx]

That’s really interesting Pat. Could you tell me what the advantages are for having the limb start bending out a couple inches from the handle rather than the outer portion?

The reason I ask is …..that I spent a lot of time designing different take down limbs and pushing the working portion out further was always beneficial.

I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts on this.     Kirk

The reason you can't push the bending portion out so far is that ELB's are wood bows and you need as much limb bending as possible to carry the strain. With FG limbs you can concentrate the bend in a much smaller portion of the limb without blowing it up.


Mark

[Roy from Pa]

Exactly Mark...

[Kirkll]

That’s really interesting Pat. Could you tell me what the advantages are for having the limb start bending out a couple inches from the handle rather than the outer portion?

The reason I ask is …..that I spent a lot of time designing different take down limbs and pushing the working portion out further was always beneficial.

I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts on this.     Kirk

The reason you can't push the bending portion out so far is that ELB's are wood bows and you need as much limb bending as possible to carry the strain. With FG limbs you can concentrate the bend in a much smaller portion of the limb without blowing it up.


Mark

That makes sense to me ….. but… in this case Buggs is going to use this fiberglass sleeve. I think having the working limb out further might be beneficial. Maybe  not… I have very little experience with these type bows. I was truly curious…. You Never stop learning in this trade….   I’ll be interested in seeing how this plays out.   

Kirk

[Kirkll]

Kirk, the traditional ELBs were sporting/target bows back in the Victorian times, 1800s. Most were relatively light in draw weight because both women and men participated. I think the stiff handle area made the bows more forgiving and smoother shooting for the general public participating. In those days they were shooting what was known as a York round;a men's round in archery consisting of 72 arrows fired at 100 yards, 48 at 80 yards, and 24 at 60 yards. The women's round weren't as many shots and not as long a distance.

I’ve actually seen the York Round competitions before. I grew up in a town named Sherwood, in western Oregon. Each year at the Robin Hood festival an archery team from England would travel there to compete. It was an awesome archery display. Some of those guys were amazing with those stick bows….   Kirk

[Pat B]

I don't build glass bows or understand all the engineering aspects of them. When I build a wood bow I basically take everything off that doesn't look like a bow. Not really quite that simple but my goal in "primitive" archery has always been to make it as simple as possible but still be effective.

[Buggs]

I'm a firm believer of maximum working limb bows. You got potential energy storing mass, might as well take advantage of it.

The reason you can't push the bending portion out so far is that ELB's are wood bows and you need as much limb bending as possible to carry the strain. With FG limbs you can concentrate the bend in a much smaller portion of the limb without blowing it up.


Mark

Yeah, exactly. I think I said the same thing   

[Kirkll]

I think there must be something to that with self bows and board bow with more limb travel and longer area storing energy. While these will not be as efficient using lighter weight shafts due to much lower preload at brace, they will in fact launch a heavier shaft with authority…. 

I Was amazed at seeing one of the ASL designs with a B-55 string get better performance rating using heavier shafts than a fast flight string using lighter shafts….I didn’t believe it until I tested it myself.  It kind of blew my preload theory all to smithereenies .  I think the momentum of the heavier shaft must have something to do with it…. I couldn’t tell ya…    Kirk

[Buggs]

Folks diss on slow bows, but hey would you rather get smacked with a baseball going 100mph or a bowling ball going 50mph?

[Roy from Pa]

Since I only make all wood bows, speed was never a factor in my designs.

I made a bow for a guy that chronograph it at 175 fps out of a 53 pound all wood bow.

I thought that was pretty decent.

[Kirkll]

Folks diss on slow bows, but hey would you rather get smacked with a baseball going 100mph or a bowling ball going 50mph?

Neither one actually... Both of them would get the job done nicely and probably be fatal.

Since I only make all wood bows, speed was never a factor in my designs.

I made a bow for a guy that chronograph it at 175 fps out of a 53 pound all wood bow.

I thought that was pretty decent.

     175  is a pretty flat shooting bow, and at typical hunting yardage would be hard to tell the difference vs 190 fps.

The faster shooting bows hold their flat trajectory longer further down range. For competitive 3D archers shooting unmarked yardage it's a serious advantage, but it comes in real handy hunting in brushy areas too where you are shooting though small windows. Bottom line is hitting your mark.     To each his own.....   Kirk

[Longcruise]

Folks diss on slow bows, but hey would you rather get smacked with a baseball going 100mph or a bowling ball going 50mph?

So, if one were hit by each simultaneously from each side which way would you fall? 🤔