Arrow speed vs bow noise.

[StxHunter]

Hi guys I have a question and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it.

I have a 50# Bear reproduction '59 Kodiak, which is probably about 46-47# at my short draw length (26.5"). For curiosity sake I decided to tune two different arrows for it to get an idea of the range of performance I could get regarding speed and noise while staying in the 9-11GPP range.

With the stock Dynaflight string without string silencers and a 450gr arrow I can get 166fps. I tried a quieter Dacron string with string silencers and was able to get a 508gr arrow to fly 152fps. The Dynaflight string is slighter louder than the Dacron string with silencers, but to me the extra 14fps seems significant.

The arrows are similar enough in weight and speed that penetration is not my main concern or question here. My main focus is getting the arrow to the deer before it is able to react too much. I hunt in south Texas where the deer are known for being a little "jumpy". All my shots on deer will be within 16yds. I know a lot of people talk talk about sacrificing speed to gain some silence, but I feel that even with the quiet set-up a deer inside 16yds is going to hear the bow going off no matter how quiet it is. This leads to me believe that sacrificing a little quietness for almost 15fps is reasonable. In these two scenarios which set-up would you feel more comfortable hunting with?

[Cory Mattson]

14fps won’t get the arrow there enough faster to make up for producing more noise.
Sound travels at hundreds of fps. 14, 15, 16, even 40 fps faster is not a game changer.

[StxHunter]

I guess my thinking is, if the deer is going to hear and react to both arrows, wouldn't the extra 14fps be slightly beneficial?

[Cory Mattson]

No it won’t
But there are other things you can do.
We’ll cover later

[Orion]

I think your reasoning is accurate, but it won't make any practical difference.  Yes, at 16 yards, the critter is going to hear the bow go off regardless of the string you're shooting or the arrow weight.  And, it may jump the string, but the difference in impact spot due to the difference in arrow speed will be negligible at 16 yards. 

[durp]

as stated it probly don't matter...but fwiw...to me shooting at a relaxed deer verses alert deer does matter.

[Wudstix]

Quiet kills, not Quick!  You can't beat the reflexes of a Whitetail.  Especially, at bowhunting distances.  Google speed of sound, @761 mph.
 

[MnFn]

Waiting to hear the rest of your thoughts Cory. Sincerely, if it helps the success of hunting, I’m all in.
Gary

[J. Cook]

The additional speed you're talking about is negligible compared to speed of sound, and speed of a deer's reaction.  Study after study, replay of video after video has shown that they can duck a compound shooting in excess of 300 fps.  I shouldn't say duck - that's not what they are doing, they are loading to run...but I digress.  My point is their ability to react to sound is so much faster than anything we can shoot at them in the trad archery world, that it won't matter.

The key is shooting at an un-alert deer.  For our efforts in trad world, Wudstix nailed it... Quiet kills, not Quick.  We can't make a trad bow quick enough to ever outweigh their speed if they react to the shot.

Having said all of that - sometimes everything seems perfect and they still drop to run.  Sometimes they are staring right at you and just stand there and take their medicine.  Who knows.   

[TIM B]

Silence is golden
Tim B

[Cory Mattson]

OK a lot of good thoughts shared.
What we are dealing with here are several issues
Arrow speed
Bow noise upon release
The speed of sound
Deer
Deer at a feeder

In our world of hunting with traditional bows we have chosen to work with tackle that delivers arrow speeds of 140 fps to 220 fps
The speed of sound is 1100 fps or 761 mph
Apply a calculator and we see sound is 6 to 7 times faster than our arrow
Deer reaction time has been filmed at 2/10s or 4/10s of a second. I forget which but either way we’re not getting around this.
None of our bows can compete with these overwhelming facts

An important variable is - IF they react.

Most experienced traditional guys know you can win this game by being quiet (or as quiet as possible) shooting at unalarmed game. Game that is relaxed.
Feeders in Texas and Waterholes in Africa are the two worst scenarios that we will be in trying to shoot at an animal with our bows.
I’ve stalked Warthogs and ambled into them far away from camp out in the bush and they didn’t freak out. They are very huntable. Same Warthog at a Waterhole goes inside out when shot at and makes white tails look slower by comparison.
If you control your own feeders and are disciplined enough to not shoot often you are in better shape. Most guys though are hunting animals that are jacked up EVERY time they come into a feeder.

So what to do? If you can hand feed in thick cover nearby you will be shooting at an animal that feels safer inside cover. Won’t be easy but it will be easier. And there is nothing worse than the burned out clean areas around feeders and waterholes. Animals like cover. Deer especially, they just feel more secure in thick stuff.

Feeder or not if you can hunt in thick cover and shoot your bow silently- even a slow bow - you will hit your point of aim BEFORE the deer reacts. First half of my life I used recurves. Always aimed low anticipating the drop. 30 years ago I switched to Flatbows, Selfbows, Longbows. ALL SLOW by any modern standards. I have shot about 150 deer since 1992 and not a single one of them dodged until after they were hit. You Need to apply more discipline beyond using a quiet bow because it isn’t just the bow. But I feel the bow design is key. If you can get your recurve quiet enough great go for it. Some of mine were very quiet. If deer come by and I get picked off I don’t shoot. Simple as that. I’ll kill ‘em another day no way I’m shooting if a big momma doe sees me or snorts at me. Avoid feeders and waterholes when you can. There’s a time for everything but when we hunt feed trees mid September through mid November most of the time most of these deer come in and feed not knowing we are in the world. Very relaxed.

There’s probably more we can share but I’m cooking stuff right now so talk later
Good Hunting <><
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[Badlands]

Chalk me up as a vote for quiet also.  Within reason, I'll take a quieter bow over a faster bow. But, as you mentioned, the deer is still going to hear it. In my experience, it is also about the tone of the bow.  A lower pitched thump doesn't seem to startle them as much as a higher pitched twang or the clank of a compound bow.  I'd be kind of embarassed to tell you how many deer I have harvested with a second shot after missing with the first.

[StxHunter]

Ok guys, you convinced me. The Dacron string with silencers is back on the bow. I hadn’t shot this string/arrow combination in over a week and the first shot sounded amazingly quiet.

[GCook]

Sound is relative and not all sounds as reactive to the deer.  I'd take the 16fps as the flatter trajectory would help me. And Dacron strings aren't quieter according to many folks I've talked to.  People I know and trust.  Work on the faster string or find a better string builder.

[Bisch]

OK a lot of good thoughts shared.
What we are dealing with here are several issues
Arrow speed
Bow noise upon release
The speed of sound
Deer
Deer at a feeder
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You left the sound of the arrow in flight off that list. I believe that is every bit as, if not more important than the sound of the bow at the shot.

Bisch

[Cory Mattson]

OK
I agree
I have been doing very similar stuff since I started bow hunting and I have never had trouble with this. I have seen (heard) it among friends in some camps. Paradise most notably we had several members dealing with this often. We were all Big Fletch guys back then. But I’m not remembering what they did to quiet arrow flight. Kinda remember certain broadheads were a problem?

Tell us what you have or know. Glad to hear.
Thanks<><
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[Gun]

I don't worry about speed. As has been said, Quiet kills. As far as fletch. I've gone from 5" banana fletch to 3" parabolic. Another benefit of that is getting 3 feathers out of full length w my chopper.
I had some shield cut given to me a few years ago and found them noisy to my ear.

[Squirrel Hunter]

Of that 14 fps difference, about 9 fps is due to the 58 grain arrow weight difference.

[Sam McMichael]

I would go for quiet.

[Steelhead]

That 59er reproduction is a very quiet bow.

I got one recently used and set it up with a high quality 12 strand B-55 string and some smaller wool puffs.Its got a Selway mini slide on rawhide quiver on it.Good solid state quiver to help with having a quiet bow IMO.

I shoot pretty heavy arrows out of it.11-12 grains per pound.7.5 inch brace hieght.

I take close shots like you plan to.So I dont worry about my trajectory with the heavier arrows.

This is a very very quiet recurve and I pan to hunt with it this Fall.

I vote quiet 1st.